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On Aerodynamics...(3 posts)

On Aerodynamics...justaguy
Sep 11, 2001 4:50 PM
You know, it seems to me that even the most aerodynamic frames around, like a trek or cervelo, aren't really. There is so much more they (or any other company with some money) could do to improve it. What about combining the smooth carbon of the trek with a curved seattube like the cervelo. how about constructing a one piece frame/seatpost/saddle?

there is a lot more i can think of too.
-using carbon wheels, with a total width of less than 2cm, you could redesign the hubs and frame/fork to be far narrower than they are now. i bet you could make a fork with inside dimensions of 3cm, and a rear a good many cm's smaller. same with the bottem bracket.
-how about aerodynamic cranks, pedals, and chainrings - make a chainring using a solid carbon inner circle bonded to the aluminum outer
-pay campy to make an aero rear derailler, and set up a 10 or even 11sp rear so you can eliminate the front derailler using 1 ring.
-make a 1piece minimal carbon aero bar/stem. how about pop-out bullhorns? put all the controls on the two big handles, like computer buttons, rear shift and brakes. maybe you could intigrate the computer with the piece
-total internal cables, and a water bladder similar to lances. or hey, a full body suit with a built in water bladder
-integrated headset obviously
-smooth lines absolutely everywhere. if you can, try to shelter components like cassette behind the frame elements
-aero brakes that mount behind the fork or seatstay and form part of the shape of these structures
-you could probably get it down to the 6.8 kilo mark too, with all the intigration going on.
-do tests do determine the optimal front trispoke shape, or use a front disk
-test for the best dimensions for bottem braket, steerer tube, wheel size, etc. no reason to stick to convention if you're doing it all
-hide the front skewers in slots in the fork, and find a way to eliminate protruding elements from the rear

Well it would have to be almost completely carbon, so you need to be able to work it pretty well. but for a team looking for the ultimate edge, it can be done. oh yeah, these are my ideas, so you'll have to pay to use them =) (hoping a designer reads it) iseestupidppl@hotmail.com
re: On Aerodynamics...Akirasho
Sep 15, 2001 3:49 PM
...two salient points...

One... despite having a good idea... a better way of doing something... for the most part, the idea has to be marketably viable to recoup R&D (not always, just in general... there are a lot of extremely aero one offs out there).

Two... competitive cycling (where you're most likely to see such a ride) is ruled by governing bodies who now place restrictions on designs (I won't debate the whys and wherefores... we won't see the "Superbikes" or "Superman" position of the '96 Olympics at these events again unless the rules change). Even though the vast majority of riders will never participate in a sanctioned event... complying with said rules eases any marketing concerns (both Trek and Cervelo make extremely slippery UCI compliant bikes).

And, it's been done (to an extent), given the aero restrictions of a double diamond platform (even if the bike is not by definition a double diamond) and in the HPV/recumbent world. Even in these instances, one might be restricted (by finances) to using off the shelf (albeit an exotic shelf) materials rather than reinventing certain components (for example... chain drive... )

Still, overall, the rider is the most unaerodynamic component... and depending on said rider... the hardest to compensate for.

http://www.tcom.co.uk/hpnet/ubike.htm

http://www.tcom.co.uk/hpnet/pics/xjet.jpg

http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/coslinger/coslinger_special.htm

We abide.

Remain In Light.
Evolution is slowliu02bhs
Apr 1, 2002 2:57 PM
some of the stuff that you have describe are already here. e.g the monocoque frame, seat post, saddle.
but you have to consider the ease of use. If every manufacture use there own specs and parts, it'll be very difficult to fixed stuff. We'll be back to the pre-assembly line age.
Can you image the difficulty a rider have to face in purchasing components if there is not standard specs. Every wheel with different diameter and hub width. It'll be a nightmare just to put a bike together.