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more about the crash, slip, & chain stay....(14 posts)

more about the crash, slip, & chain stay....marcoxxx
Jul 23, 2003 10:46 AM
from Trek's man on the scene at stage 15...i lifted from trek's web site.....

Chris told me he didn't actually see the crash but heard about it over the race radio. He was riding in the number one team car, rear seat, passenger side behind Johan and Tom Weisel. Their team was a few car lengths behind the other riders that had been left behind when Lance attacked the first time so that is why it took so "long" for Chris to get up to Lance.

Not that there was lots to do when he arrived. I guess he could have knocked the life out of the spectator holding the bag but he also could have told Lance to ride more to the middle of the road away from the rabid fans. Chris didn't carry any wheels up the road with him but in ended up the wheels were fine – Lance just needed a good shove to get going again.

Once underway I was hopeful, but not for long. When Lance kicked his foot out I thought (as did Chris, I later learned) that the fall had damaged his pedal or shoe or cleat. Not so. When Mayo fell he landed on Lance's right chainstay breaking it half way through. Once back on the broken bike, it would have felt flexy but the broken part was not flapping in the wind. But when Lance put some power to the pedals to get back up with the others, the chainstay flexed and yanked on the rear derailleur cable. That made the chain jump up and down the cogset and nearly put Lance back on the deck.

For whatever reason, the sporadic shifting settled down during Lance's next surge and most of the rest of the remaining 9kms up to the finish. Perhaps Lance adjusted to the bike condition or he just got lucky and the problem was less pronounced. I don't know how to explain why the bike would have settled down, but it did.

Either way, the chainstay is broken. Johan and Lance were proud to announce that the bike was damaged yet Lance still not only finished, but he won and put time into the chasing riders. Once again, a heroic effort.

and when Trek learns not to save a few grams on stays?cyclopathic
Jul 23, 2003 12:05 PM
they are first to go in crash
as long as there are weight weenies..ColnagoFE
Jul 23, 2003 12:48 PM
As long as people are concerned with light weight at all costs Trek and others will continue to cut corners wherever they can to save weight. No bike is designed to withstand some crash forces, but some survive better than others.
Lance the weight weenie...zero85ZEN
Jul 23, 2003 12:53 PM
Gee...I guess Lance is just a weight weenie? Right?

I guess Trek should....zero85ZEN
Jul 23, 2003 12:51 PM
...start testing their stays by haveing a Basque climber fall on them.

You're right, they better get on the stick and build a "Basque proof" frame.

Of course their are companies out there that build plenty of frames that will withstand being landed on by another falling rider...Huffy comes to mind, along with some others. Heck just about any old Schwinn 10 speed from the 70's would probably hold up really well. Of course you would pay a little bit of a weight penalty...but hey, it's not the's the rider...what's another 10 or 15 or 20 pounds when you're climbing?

I should have proof read...zero85ZEN
Jul 23, 2003 12:55 PM
"having" and "...THERE are companies..."

Come on all you post into me...
I guess Trek should....otiebob
Jul 23, 2003 1:08 PM
Though I'm not personally a fan of Trek OCLV, I suspect that all of the frames in this year's Tour might break in a crash like Monday's w/Armstrong and Mayo. They are all on the cutting edge of light weight v. longevity. Of course, those frames are not expected to last more than a season or so for pros.

What's interesting is when an urban myth gets perpetuated from something like this. I can just hear the BS on how Trek's break easily, etc. bandied around shops and club rides in the near future. If its not Cannondale or Bianchi, it is now something attributable to Treks - lol. Of course the reality is that a "lifetime" bike is akin to the mythical unicorn when it comes to crashes, let alone race-specific frames. Ultimately, the only crashproof frame may be a steel frame that is lugged since it can be repaired/retubed easily, but we won't start that war today....
Yeah...those bike a pieces of sh!t...biknben
Jul 23, 2003 12:58 PM
I'm surprised the musset bag didn't just tear the head tube right off the frame.
(end sarcasm)

Keep in mind, Mayo ran right over that portion of Lance's bike. Many bikes will fail under forces like that. Today's frame are not designed to withstand those types of forces. It's consumers like us that are demanding these lightwieght bikes. Don't blame the manufacturer when someone does something that the frame was not designed for.

Now go ride your Schwinn Varsity into a wall or something.
and when Trek learns not to save a few grams on stays?xcandrew
Jul 23, 2003 3:38 PM
I wouldn't necessarily blame the crack on the need to save weight. Any carbon fiber tube of the thicknesses typically used in frames would be susceptible to cracking in a hard side impact like that received when Mayo fell on the chainstay. Cross country skiers are usually familiar with this... The carbon fiber poles that we use are very stiff in compression, but can crack when hit with a strong side load. I once had a CF ski pole break apart when I was just skiing along. If I had inspected the pole carefully, I probably would have caught the beginnings of a crack earlier. It was probably caused by impact from a falling on it several days to weeks before...
and when Trek learns not to save a few grams on stays?gray8110
Jul 23, 2003 10:03 PM
Mayo fell onto the chainstay not something you can design a carbon bike to survive w/o damage-- an aluminum frame may not have broken but it probably would have bent making the bike unridable.
more broken carbonbiggearlover
Jul 23, 2003 2:42 PM
Anyone remember the footage after that first big crash, stage 1? I distinctly remember someone walking over the line, carrying a carbon frame snapped clean through just behind the head tube, only the cables holding it together. Now that was a real crash!

BTW, I think it was a Wilier.
yak, yak, yak - want durability? Get straight-gauge Ti!BergMann
Jul 23, 2003 5:29 PM
If you've ever asked what a bike or frame weighs, however, you have lost your whining privileges on frame failure for life...

As for all this "when will Trek learn" crap - there is a bombproof model, it's known as the 5200. Lance's bike is known as a "superlight" for a reason.

yak, yak, yak - want durability? Get straight-gauge Ti!I Love Shimano
Jul 24, 2003 12:51 AM
basta? ano pa po?
like xcandrew said...fbg111
Jul 24, 2003 10:53 AM
If a carbon structure is not designed to carry a particular load, it won't. Carbon bike stays are designed to carry the compression and tension loads of the rider pedaling and the chain pulling, but not the lateral load of Mayo falling onto them. Any carbon bike would have been subject to failure in that situation.