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That 15 lb. thing was bugging me, so I did a test....(34 posts)

That 15 lb. thing was bugging me, so I did a test....shirt
Jul 21, 2003 11:17 AM
I had a hard time conceiving of somebody as fat-less as Lance losing 15 lbs. over the course of a day with only an hour race + warmup on the bike. I thought, "well, maybe if you cut his arm off..."

So on Saturday I rode 70+ miles with ~ 5,000 ft. of climbing. It was 90f when I started and 112f when I finished. We lost one guy to heat stroke about two and a half hours in, two more guys to heat exhaustion half an hour later. I drank well over a gallon of fluid during the 3:35 I was riding.

I have a LOT more body mass (and fat to lose) than Lance, and here are the numbers:

Before ride: 169
After ride: 164

Five pounds. I can't CONCEIVE how I, or anyone, could lose three times that much weight with far less calories expended.

Any higher cat guys here have any other interesting numbers to share?

/shirt
It is hard to concieve of this...but on a hard, hot day for me..eschelon
Jul 21, 2003 11:26 AM
I lost 10 pounds...mind you I wasn't feeling like Lance did...my usual body weight is around 180...so I was quite surprised to be looking at the scale saying 170! But you've got you admit, I have never ever in my whole life ever seen someone's lips white during a bike ride with salt deposits like Lance. These guys in the Tour are truly superhuman doing superhuman things...also paying superhuman costs of suffering and pain.
It is hard to concieve of this...but on a hard, hot day for me..ClydeTri
Jul 21, 2003 11:29 AM
but did you lose 10 lbs in ONE hour?
he lost the weight from......african
Jul 21, 2003 11:42 AM
the morning weigh in, (they weigh in after the first pee of the morning) then they weigh in after the race. So the loss was from the whole day till end of the race, he started the TT already having lost weight and dehydrated.

So he did not loose all that weight in one hour.
sick??????ClydeTri
Jul 21, 2003 11:28 AM
that is why I asked that question down below...he had some water bottles on during that hour ride..how could you lose that much in ONE hour? I suspect Lance has been sick and they have been keeping it quiet..
I suspect you're right. (nm)Jon Billheimer
Jul 21, 2003 12:19 PM
I agree...James OCLV
Jul 21, 2003 12:29 PM
Lance admitted to having a stomach bug in the week preceeding the Tour. He's probably been slightly dehydrated the entire time. That certainly would explain a lot about his performance.
maybe you have the answer yourselfesbike
Jul 21, 2003 11:28 AM
did lance drink "well over a gallon" of fluid in the TT?
maybe I don'tshirt
Jul 21, 2003 11:48 AM
As you can see, I rode hard for over three and a half hours. Lance rode for one. Anyone who's done 40k TTs knows what it's like to go WFO for an hour. It doesn't really matter if you're Lance or some Cat-5 newbie; if you're on the rivet for an hour in deep zone-5 in the heat, you're going to lose some weight.

I'm just not buying 15 lbs. To be honest, I don't even buy a 10 lb. loss over 60 minutes.

/shirt
maybe you don't get it....zero85ZEN
Jul 21, 2003 11:57 AM
Do you know how much warm-up those guys do before a TT?

Hours and hours of riding. He weighed in in the morning and again after the race. That was probably a period of 6 to 8 hours. With a total of 3 to 4 hours of ride time (if not more) between warm-ups and the TT itself.

Some of you guys really need to stop and think a bit before you post some of this silly malarky.
I'm pretty sure those guys are warming upshirt
Jul 21, 2003 12:02 PM
for about an hour, no more.

And how do you call a 70 mile suffer-fest to test this "silly malarky"?
I'm pretty sure those guys are warming upzero85ZEN
Jul 21, 2003 12:08 PM
You are dead wrong about how long they warm up for before a TT. Do some research.

As far as your 70 mile suffer fest as a personal test of the effects of dehydration, I'm sure it is a bit less than scientific.
You've clearly done the research, a$$hole, so share it. nmshirt
Jul 21, 2003 2:10 PM
Others already have posted pertinent info....zero85ZEN
Jul 21, 2003 5:19 PM
...to refute your posts. Don't get so excited. No need for name calling.

But you would be wise to think a bit more about what you post here.

Posting such comments as "I'm sure those guys are warming up for about an hour, no more." shows some glaring lack of knowledge about the subject you are "discussing".

Sit back, relax. Enjoy the Tour, you may even learn something. I know that I do from watching it.
Nope, still haven't seen a "typical"shirt
Jul 21, 2003 8:10 PM
TDF warm up routine for a one-hour TT. I HAVE read that some of them warm up for no more than 30 minutes before a "normal" road stage.

I've seen nothing concrete to suggest that any of them do anything like these insanely long (3 hours? come on...) warm ups that some have mentioned here. Perhaps they're getting confused with what happens on a rest day.

For a prologue-length TT, I could believe a 2-hour warm up. Since you seem to know a little something about bicycle RACING (the message board I'm regretting having strayed from), you'll know that the shorter the event, the longer the warm up.

I have been enjoying watching the Tour, and it's not my first. It's probably my 20th, which is about when I started racing myself.

/shirt
Warm ups...Slowclimber
Jul 21, 2003 12:48 PM
At the level they are competing, warmups are not quite what they would be for you or I.

Watching the tour coverage they mentioned that Lance pre-rides the TT course the morning of the TT. It's not at race pace so figure 1.5 hours to ride the course, in 80-90 temps that day.

Next, pay attention during the upcomming TT. They will show video of the guys warming up. They warm up to the point that sweat is just pouring off of them. Their warm ups can vary between 1 and 2 hours for a TT after pre-riding the course.

Then there is the time trial it's self. Your 70 mile ride couldn't even compare to the effort that these guys are putting out for one hour. Think about it, they are riding 30 miles at an average of 30 miles per hour. Most cyclists have a hard time doing an all out sprint at speeds just over that let alone maintaining it for an hour.

All of this combined he probably spent 3.5 to 4.5 hours on the bike during the TT stage, rode in near 100 degree temps and maximum speeds. He rode every bit as far as you did on your 70 mile ride, but at much higer levels of exertion in higher temprature ranges.

It's very conceivable that he lost 10 pounds, which is what the actual number was over the course of a day. The 10 pounds in an hour is a media exaduration.

Look at Lance's lips as he crosses the finish line. It looked like he was posing for a "Got Milk" commercial they were so white from salt on them.
Lance's Time Trial warm up routineEpicX
Jul 21, 2003 12:24 PM
Carmicheal mentions that if it's really hot, the warm up is done at a LOWER intensity.

I wonder if some of you have ever ridden in REALLY hot weather (100+). You would be amazed at how much fluid you can lose. I've come back 5+ lbs lighter on rides that weren't really hard, just hotter than hell.

Lance's lips looked naaaaaasty. good thing he didn't win, the podium girls might have refused to kiss him!

from CTS:

CTS Article

Lance's Olympic Time Trial Warm-up Schedule

Am: 1 hours easy road ride, keeping rpm's high, 95-100

Pm:
Warm up begins on an indoor trainer
15minutes @ 120-140 heart rate, rpm's 90-95
5minutes @ 140-150 heart rate, rpm's lower, 65-70
90 seconds @ 175-180 heart rate, rpm's high, 95-100
5minutes @ 120-140 heart rate, rpm's 90-95
90 seconds @ 175-180 heart rate, rpm's high, 95-100
5minutes @ 120-140 heart rate, rpm's 90-95
90 seconds @ 175-180 heart rate, rpm's high, 95-100
15minutes @ 120-140 heart rate, rpm's 90-95
5 minutes off bike, heading to start area
5 minutes official start
Drink at least one bottle of fluid replacement energy drink during the warm-up
Lance's Time Trial warm up routine during a tour.....zero85ZEN
Jul 21, 2003 12:43 PM
is probably a bit different only in that I'd be willing to bet he puts in more time (km) on the bike at low intensity before the TT and the warmup.

These guys have been riding for 5 to 6 hours a day every day for the last 10 days (excepting the rest day which is probably 3 to 4 hours of riding), so you are not going to shock the body out of that routine by only riding for 2 hours, half of which is at max effort.

I've heard that before Tour TT's they will ride up to 3 hour "warm up" rides in the morning before starting the actual pre TT warm up.

But I might be completly wrong and in need of a smack on the head.

:-)
My experienceamflyer
Jul 21, 2003 12:35 PM
I rode 40 miles once on a windy, hot, very hilly day. I drank maybe 6 bottles of water on the ride, plus gatorade (maybe two bottles.) After getting to the house in which I was staying, I drank more water; ususal post-ride rehydration. I weighed 160 pounds after all this. I thought the scale was off by ten pounds. Next afternoon, after a day off of riding, and more rehydration, I weighed about 173 again.

That night was the worst night ever, tossing and turning, with just a general feeling of malaise. Thinking back, I was probably real close to getting in some bad trouble on that ride. I think it's very possible, as my ride was not all that hard, with at least two stops that I remember for rest and more drink.

Steve
Fluid lossjhart11
Jul 21, 2003 2:11 PM
I don't know if this helps, but I've lost 8 pounds in fours hours even when drinking 3, 24 oz bottles on the ride (of course I am just a CAT 3 so what do I know). But one of the guys that I ride with occasionally (who has a UCI Pro license) has lost 14 pounds in a day due to the compound effect of an intestinal virus in addition to racing. Besides, what the other posts have said is correct--Lance lost that weight over the course of the entire day--the media has sensationalized it into "15 pounds in and hour." Don't forget that the extent to which Lance is suffering from a stomach aliment is, as yet, undisclosed, and we will likely not here the entire story until a few days after the tour.
re: That 15 lb. thing was bugging me, so I did a test....cyclodawg
Jul 21, 2003 11:54 AM
How much weight do you think you would have lost if you were suffering from a stomach virus? Something has been physically wrong with Lance this Tour. Whether he's still suffering from the stomach virus that plagued him the days before the Tour, or whether it's some other physical ailment that he's keeping from the media and his rivals, something has been wrong. You don't fall off as much as he has performance-wise unless either (a) you haven't trained as hard or (b) you have a physical problem. I'm guessing Lance didn't slack in training before his shot at a historical fifth straight Tour, and his mother commented during the Tour that his pre-tour tests showed him to be in better condition than years past. In years past, Lance would have at least 5 minutes on this group of riders.

Whatever the problem, fighting any type of virus alone will tend to make one dehydrated. Fighting a virus while riding a TT in the Tour would make a person lose 10% of his body mass. If Lance has been fighting a virus, he would have been losing hydration (weight) over the course of the day. 15 pounds certainly isn't out of the question.

Amazing that he placed second in that TT. I've never seen a man's lips turn white like that.
Okay, but where does it GO?shirt
Jul 21, 2003 12:00 PM
Is he sweating all of that out? Sick or not sick, how do you LOSE 15 lbs. in 12 hours or less? He didn't have 15 lbs of food in his stomach when he weighed in at his "heavy" weight, he had maybe 2 lbs. So he barfed or squirted that away, lost another 2 lbs. during his warmup which still leaves ~11 lbs. to lose in an HOUR's effort.

I wanna hear from a doctor here...
Okay, but where does it GO?cyclodawg
Jul 21, 2003 12:07 PM
If you've ever been sick and running a high fever, you probably remember sweating a good bit. When you're fighting a virus, your body temperature rises and your sweat secreations increase dramatically. Lance was sweating buckets in warmups despite having a misting fan on him the whole time. Sounds to me like his body is fighting something off.

Add to that the fact that the heat was scorching (and had been throughout the Tour until today), and it's not hard to imagine sweating away fifteen pounds of water. The body, after all, is 70% water weight.

I don't know for sure that he is sick, but his performance Friday strongly suggests it.

He seemed a bit better today though!
Spoiler here. Careful when opening......nmDave Hickey
Jul 21, 2003 12:13 PM
I'll relight my crack pipe. I though this was the general forumDave Hickey
Jul 21, 2003 12:14 PM
did not loose all the weight in one hour, it was in a day...nmafrican
Jul 21, 2003 12:30 PM
15 lbs is not that unbelievable, it's normal severe dehydrationAOR
Jul 21, 2003 12:33 PM
Textbook of Medical Physiology page 977: "As much as a 5-10lbs weight loss has been recorded in athletes in a period of 1 hour during endurance athletic events under hot and humid conditions. Essentially all this weight loss results from loss of sweat."

Also a temperature increase of 1 degree (viral, etc) can cause enough sweating to remove 10 times basal rate of body heat production!
Okay, but where does it GO?AOR
Jul 21, 2003 1:20 PM
Don't equate weight loss with food. Lance's weight loss was independent of his dietary intake (except that he didn't hydrate properly!!!). The weight lost throughout the course of the day was from:
-urine (1-2L)
-feces (300-500ml)
-SWEAT (mostly evaporated)(4-6L)
-lungs (insensible)(100-700ml)

Subtract 2-4L that Lance drank that day and you end up with
a deficit of ~ 3-7L (thats 6.6-15.4 pounds!)

1000ml =1 kg
Not a Dr, but some more info.KG 361
Jul 21, 2003 3:42 PM
If he was suffering from an intestinal virus, in addition to already losing more sweat than normal, he would also not be retaining the fluids that he took in as efficiently as a "well" person. There are other ways to lose fluids besides sweating. I don't think I need to get graphic;-) Seems that he was feeling a bit better today, though!
If you drank over a gallon, that's 7 pounds right there...Brooks
Jul 21, 2003 12:41 PM
so you may have lost 12+ pounds during your ride. I have no idea how much fluid LA took in during the day, but he sure didn't carry a couple of gallons of water with him on the TT!
Actually, one gallon of water is 8.3 pounds.....BlackFibre
Jul 21, 2003 1:31 PM
so 15 pounds isn't quite 2 gallons of water lost. Quite easy to lose that much weight when you have a good thermal regulation system trained to sweat efficiently, as Lance's system does.
I've lost over 20 pounds through sweat in a single day.kermit
Jul 21, 2003 1:19 PM
Before you call me a liar, read on.

I wasn't on a bike, I was working outside in the heat for 7-8 hours. I drank over two gallons of fluids. I have a one gallon cooler that was refilled twice with 1/2 strength Gatorade, it was just over half full when I got home. So, say I drank 2 gallons, water weighs about 8.3 pounds per gallon. That's 16.6 pounds plus I weighed 7 pounds less than I did at the start of the day. That's 23.6 pounds, mostly due to sweat, and that figure is generous.

I know, I weighed in at only seven pounds lighter, but if I had not had so much to drink, I could easily have seen myself losing 15 pounds and possibly ending up in the hospital.

Was Lance rehydrated through an IV?

kermit
15 lbs and still riding?Ian
Jul 21, 2003 3:28 PM
I will admit it is possible to have a net loss of 15 lbs of fluid. What I will debate though is that you can have that loss and still continue to perform. If Lance had lost that much fluid, I have a hard time seeing him placing second in the TT and then climbing mountains the next day. It would be more likely that he would be hospitalized. Even Carmichael says that an 8%+ loss of body mass results in a 20%+ drop in power output. I would not consider placing second in the TT a 20% drop in power. Losing 15 lbs and still performing is just too hard for me to believe.

Ian
re: That 15 lb. thing was bugging me, so I did a test....il sogno
Jul 22, 2003 10:55 AM
In it's article on the Gaillac time trial, the Los Angeles Times quotes Chris Carmichael as saying that Lance lost just under 10 lbs. during the time trial. I wonder if Lance was just telling a tall Texas tale.