|Why didn't LA "wait" for Biloki?||wink|
Jul 21, 2003 10:59 AM
|Last week Biloki goes down hard, no one "waits". Two years ago we all thought that Jan was a dead man when he went down the rivine and Lanced waited? How did Lance know to wait for Jan but not for Biloki? Not only did Lance not wait he wasted no time in getting the hell away from the Biloki crash scene via his improvised cycle-cross course. ???|
|re: Why didn't LA "wait" for Biloki?||hawayyan1|
Jul 21, 2003 11:08 AM
|Exactly!! Armstrong himself said it didn't seem like Biloki fell that hard, so why didn't he wait? My guess would be he was too close. When Armstrong waited for Ulrich, he was kicking Ulrich's ass, so nothing to lose. I guess the Gentleman's agreement only extends to whomever it is convienient for. Think the headlines will read: "Tour Won By Time Bonus Seconds and Gentlemen's Agreement"?|
|Just a question,||TJeanloz|
Jul 21, 2003 11:15 AM
|Do those of you maligning Armstrong have any racing experience? I'm just curious, because some of the comments don't seem to reflect the realities of racing.
It is entirely possible that Armstrong, Ullrich, et.al. did "wait" - it's likely that they soft-pedaled the descent until it was apparent that Beloki wasn't getting up. "Waiting" for your opponent generally doesn't mean getting off your bike and standing by the side of the road - it means not attacking. And further, with Vinokourov up the road, and such agreement would be null and void - it's really only applicable when you are in the lead group.
Jul 21, 2003 12:12 PM
|"Waiting" means not attacking, or trying to profit from the misfortune of the leader's crash.|
|It was just a question not a "milignment" LA or anyone else||wink|
Jul 21, 2003 2:32 PM
|some of you guys are wound to tight! take a prozak or something!|
Jul 21, 2003 11:09 AM
|This has been discussed a bit, but there are two primary issues:
(1) Lance's reaction was very improvised - he was purely acting on instinct until he rejoined the group (after the through-the-field escapade).
(2) They were in a chase group, with a contender up the road. Because Vinokourov would not be waiting, it was not possible for Ullrich and Armstrong to wait. If they had been the front group, there would be the possibility that they would wait. Also, there's an issue of timing. It isn't like they would stop at the side of the road, "waiting" generally means soft-pedaling until the fallen rider can catch the group. If a guy is off his bike for more than a few seconds, you aren't going to wait.
|I'll tell 'ya...||MrDan|
Jul 21, 2003 11:16 AM
|Lance was avoiding the crash - hence into the field. Beloki was NOT the yellow jersey. Even if he had waited to find out, Beloki wasn't gettin' up ... so since Lance had to go on the fly thru the field, and saw no one else in the group was waiting once he got back on the pavement, why should he... there's a momentum and esprit de corp that can only be blocked by the leader... the chase group had no idea what happened to Lance, and could only surmise who was down on the pavement. It all happens fast...
I'm outta here for the day!
|re: Why didn't LA "wait" for Biloki?||firstrax|
Jul 21, 2003 11:44 AM
|The difference is both Lance and Beloki were on the chase when Beloki fell. |
If Vino were ahead and possibly taking the GC lead when Lance went down I doubt Jan would have waited.
The bottom line is Lance waited because he could, so did Jan.
|Ullrich didn't immediately wait, himself....||Stinky Hippie|
Jul 21, 2003 11:49 AM
|....It took him a momment to gather his senses and cut down the pace and for Hamilton to get the leading group to settle down. (I don't think Jan was trying to take advantage of Lance intentionally, but he didn't exactly stop for the guy after going around him. I suspect the adrenaline blocked his senses mommentarily.)
Lance did not attack after Beloki went down; he simply saved his arse and rejoined the group. I'm sure at that point he knew Beloki was done. He did see the crash afterall. But he certainly didn't attack.
Should Lance have gone off the road and immediately stopped to wait for Beloki? Sheesh, have you ever tried stopping on an MTB downhill? That's more dangerous than riding through it. No sense in risking hurting himself just because Beloki did.
Feel the gin
|I kinda felt that too...||elsaltamontes|
Jul 21, 2003 1:16 PM
|I was telling my co-workers that it was Hamilton that seemed to have gathered the lead group. I do think that Jan is a gentleman, but from what I noticed he wasn't exactly slowing down too much. It wasn't until Hamilton propped up that the group slowed down. I think maybe, Jan saw Lance get back up on the bike and figured he was okay. Either way my respect for the sport and the athletes has just quadrupled.
As far as the Beloki issue. It does make sense that Lance didn't stop. Under the circumstances, the leader (Vinokourov) was sprinting to the finish at the time and he was a contender for the gc. With regards to Lance and Jan today, Chevenelle (the runaway guy) was not a threat to the gc. If Chevenelle was, it would have been okay for Jan to chase leaving Lance behind.
|we both agree, and we both ride Ventanas....||Stinky Hippie|
Jul 21, 2003 7:09 PM
|...or did you just pick that handle for fun?
Feel the gin
|we both agree, and we both ride Ventanas....||elsaltamontes|
Jul 22, 2003 10:00 AM
|woah... yes, I rode a ventana. Well, I still do (sort of). I bought the Sycip double dribble. Custom steel front triangle from Sycip and then the 4 inch ventana rear triangle. I used to have an el salt, hence the name. But I also like The 'Grass'hopper (english for el saltamtontes) if you know what I'm sayin' stinky hippie.
Great freaking tour, I'm on the edge of my seat..(well, bed at 6am every morning PST)
See you back here on the next stage. Go Lance Go!
|re: Why didn't LA "wait" for Biloki?||tyrius|
Jul 21, 2003 12:51 PM
|As someone else said who's to say they didn't "soft" pedal for a bit to see if Beloki was getting up. At the rate Armstrong and Beloki were going they would have caught Vino. Sure the crash and X country action slowed them down a bit, but after that the times didn't come down again. Why? Who really knows, but it could be because they were waiting for a bit.
Also, as others have said Vino was up the road and was a GC contender that everyone had to mark. He wouldn't have known about the crash so he wouldn't be slowing down.
Jul 21, 2003 1:30 PM
|As has been said, Vino was up the road on an attack at the end of a stage on a downhill run in to the finish. It's a whole different situation.
In 2001, when Ullrich went down, Lance waited for Ullrich until Beloki and Kivilev passed Lance and took off up the road before Livingston paced Ullrich back up to the group. Lance just sat in on Beloki and Kivilev. He didn't help them any, but he didn't let them gain any time either. Also, there was still a good distance from the finish with another major climb, so it didn't make any sense for Lance to go off on his own.