|Question about the crash for the more experienced:||MXL02|
Jul 15, 2003 5:10 AM
|First, Does the tire always come apart when you lock up the rear wheel?
And secondly, if it had stayed together, do you think he would have regained control?
Both Beloki and Lance presumably were using Hutchinson Team tires...Beloki's came apart during the lock-up, while Lance's stayed together during his overland sojourn.
|I think the key...||Dwayne Barry|
Jul 15, 2003 5:21 AM
|in the tire coming off is that he locked it up through a corner which would have caused a slight skid (high lateral forces) forcing the tire off. Locking up by itself doesn't cause the tire to come off. Sure he would have probably regained control, if not making the corner, going straight and taking the same route as Armstrong.|
|How fast was he going?.....||evs|
Jul 15, 2003 5:40 AM
|I'm sitting here thinking about it the next morning.Unbeleivable.
Seeing Lance's tire compress in the first little depression off the road
then seeing him shoot off the road the next switch back is still making
me shake my head in disbelief.Imagine if he wheelie dropped the embankment like in his commercial.:-)That's one for the books.
If it wasn't for the crash do you think Lance and Beloki would have caught
Jul 15, 2003 5:42 AM
|I was also actually considering the fact that I once rolled a tire in a corner and when it went off the rim, it locked up the wheel. I was wondering if this is what happened to Beloki. Tire goes flat going into the corner causing it to roll off and lock things up.|
|Well according to Armstrong...||Dwayne Barry|
Jul 15, 2003 5:47 AM
|who should know. He locked up the rear wheel (assume inducing a skid), the tire rolled and then blew as Beloki was fish-tailing until the rim caught the pavement...|
Jul 15, 2003 6:02 AM
|that scenario led to what motorcyclists refer to as the dreaded "high-side". When Beloki's excellent skills managed to contain the initial slide of the rear wheel, his compesation for the slide led to the rear wheel actually overtaking the front-to-rear wheel axis. Once this happens you are a gonner.|
|Well according to Armstrong...||Pygme|
Jul 15, 2003 6:04 AM
|It would be my guess that when he locked up the tire at that speed, he wore through the casing popping the tire. Now that the tire is delfated, it easily comes off the rim.|
|A question and a story||Grand Pooh Bear|
Jul 15, 2003 6:16 AM
|Did the tire blow, or was it ripped off the rim under the lateral force? I would assume he was using a sew-up and not a clincher. I would also assume that the cement holding those tires was never meant to withstand that kind of sideways force.
Interestingly enough a friend had a blowout on the front coming down Mt. Wachusett in MA this past Sunday. His brake was too high, rubbing the sidewall. The sidewall exploded at speed downhill and the tube got all tangled in the fork and spokes. By some mystical power, he did not faceplant. The tangled tube actually slowed him in a controlled enough manner so that he stayed on the bike and not the pavement. It's too bad that same god was not smiling on Beloki.
|A question and a story||il sogno|
Jul 15, 2003 11:23 PM
|There is a thread below that discusses whether Beloki was on a clincher or a tubular - complete with pictures of the crash. IMHO it looks as if his rear wheel has a velox tape strip on it. He probably would have had much better control of the bike if he were on a tubular.|
|The tire came off due to a combination of events ...||El Guapo|
Jul 15, 2003 6:18 AM
|An EXTREME lateral force to the tire combined with an extremely HOT tire (softens slightly) due to road temperature and road friction, an extreme heat spike in the rim from the brake locking at speed, the tubular glue softening due to the same heating effects. All of these and more had to occur for that tire to vacate the rim. I think anyone would concede that had he fallen on the initial fish tail, Beloki would have simply paid a heavy price to the "road-rash" gods. It was upon the second, reverse fish tail (tank slapping, high-siding) that the serious impact injuries occur. By the way, watch the video again and focus on Armstrong prior to exiting the road. You can actually see his rear tire slightly fish tail both right and left. Armstrong "feathered" the brakes in a situation where anyone else might have grabbed a handful and met the pavement with less than hospitable impact.|
|Here's my theory||Mel Erickson|
Jul 15, 2003 8:20 AM
|Beloki was braking for the hairpin and hit the hot, oily, patched section of road. The rear tire lost traction and the brake locked because there was no road friction resistance. Now, with a locked rear wheel the bike starts to fishtail and moves to a section of the road that's not oily and he starts to skid. He compensates but the speed and force of the skid are too much and the rear end swings violently back. Whether the tire blew or rolled first is inconsequential, he was already a gonner when the rear end swung back. The initial skid was too violent to recover. If he'd have gone down before the second swing of the rear end he might have been better off, but that's a pretty big "might". Lance was able to keep everything together because he didn't hit the same patch the same way and therefore didn't fishtail. He could scrub off speed through controlled braking and look for an escape route. IMHO, if Lance would have been in Beloki's place we'd all be wishing him well on his recovery.|
|The tire rolled because...||biknben|
Jul 15, 2003 12:31 PM
|The skid started because of the slick tar on the road. The tire slid towards one side and finally hit a good section of pavement. Unfortunately the wheel was no longer rolling forward. The force was coming from the side which yanked the tire off the rim. Once that happened the wheel stopped in the frame. I will guess that it blew with it got caught up in the brake caliper.
IMO, Beloki never had a chance. The tire rolling may have actually helped. Had the tire stayed on the rim, the rear end would have whipped back more violently and he would have flown farther.
Like someone else said, this is what motorcyclist called a "high side". Once a skid causes the rear wheel to go out to the side, it is often better to continue the skid and "lay it down" rather than try to save it. When the skidding tire regains traction is will buck you like a bull. I'm not recommending we all go out and crash every time we lock 'em up but when the dust has cleared, you will wish you had laid it down instead of going high side.