's Forum Archives - Tour-Giro-Vuelta

Archive Home >> Tour-Giro-Vuelta(1 2 )

USPS lets Armstrong down(18 posts)

USPS lets Armstrong downDwayne Barry
Jul 15, 2003 4:50 AM
I guess in all the flap about Beloki's crash, folks have overlooked that Armstrong ended up isolated at the end of the stage and was reduced to cajoling the group to chase Vino. Which they did, the Euskatel riders (3) and Ullrich at least, should have shown some balls and told Armstrong exactly where to stick it. It's his race to lose, make him chase! At least Mayo got 3rd and the bonus seconds.
True, but,TJeanloz
Jul 15, 2003 4:54 AM
There should have been plenty of incentive for him to chase, but if he doesn't chase, Beloki, Ullrich and Hamilton are in the same straits - stuck umpteen minutes behind Vinokourov. They all had an incentive to work hard. Everybody's goal is to win the race themselves, not just to make Armstrong lose it.
Ah, but...Dwayne Barry
Jul 15, 2003 5:17 AM
sometimes you got to be willing to lose a race to win it. I would have refused to work just for the consternation it would have caused Armstrong. And Armstrong is still the 800 lb gorilla preventing anyone from winning the race unless he seriously falters in the TT.
Oh, this could be a good argument,TJeanloz
Jul 15, 2003 5:23 AM
But you have to balance the fact that Armstrong probably believes that he can gain significant time on Vinokourov on the TTs and in the Pyrenees, you (assuming you are Ullrich, Beloki, Hamilton) need all the time you can get. And, if you consider Armstrong the man to beat, which you must, you don't gain anything by letting Vinokourov go up the road - it's lose-lose.
A largely unsaid fact:OldEdScott
Jul 15, 2003 5:24 AM
For all the praise Postal has gotten this year (mostly deservedly)it's been a little disconcerting to see LA at the end of two tough mountain stages, fighting off a swarm of hornets all alone.
why did lance run in front ot the group when reentering?ColnagoFE
Jul 15, 2003 6:46 AM
When Armstrong came back on the road after his carry didn't it look like he cut right in front of the group making them slow down to avoid crashing into him? Was this on purpose to slow them down a bit? You'd think he would have just entered the road frm the side he came in on and not crossed in front of a descending group.
I think physics was to blameScot_Gore
Jul 15, 2003 7:30 AM
From what I see, Lance dismounted with some speed and picked up the bike like a cyclo rider, then he ran and jumped the ditch. He had lots of forward momentum carrying him across the road. If it was me, I likely wouln't even have noticed that the chase group was rounding the curve behind me and merely done what was required of me by the forces at work in an emergency like that.

my 2 cents

Jul 15, 2003 7:39 AM
have you ever tried stopping quickly while wearing cycling shoes on a hard surface? I think if he did that he would have ended up falling and lost even more time.
Another also...spyderman
Jul 16, 2003 11:23 PM
Faster riders pass on left and slower riders stay right...

Now go find a peloton.
I don't think Posties deserve the blamecyclopathic
Jul 15, 2003 7:53 AM
they spent whole day chasing Jaksche and trying to keep yellow on LA shoulders. They worked hard on Galibier day before. If they were better they'd have their own teams.

In previous years there were other teams helping Telecom, ONCE, etc and with exception of major rival Lance was ahead of bunch by big margin. It is his fault he isn't. Now with only 2.5min separating yellow and 10th, race is for grabs. Maybe it's too much to ask from the team to do your job.
if they could keep up, they'd be contenders, not domestiquesShockee
Jul 15, 2003 8:03 AM
As the others said, the team of domestiques is there to expend exnergy controlling the race for as long as possible. This exhausts their energy as they sacrifice for the benefit of keeping LA in position, well rested.

On hilly stages: As the race heats up towards the finish, only those riders capable of challenging LA can really stay near the front. By this point in a race, a domestique should not really be capable of keeping up with the challengers - or else he should be a team leader and Tour (or stage) contender himself! If a domestqiue could stay with Lance until the top of the final climb, he should be repudiated for not using himself up earlier for the benefit of the team.
On a mountain top finish...Dwayne Barry
Jul 15, 2003 8:19 AM
yes you're correct, on a downhill/flat run in you still want somebody with you if at all possible. If Heras was riding like he did last year he would have been there. Didn't he finish with Armstrong on one of the mountain top finishes?

I don't get it, have you guys been watching the tour over the past few years. Do any of you remember Armstrong being isolated on a run-in to the finish in the mountains, or being isolated on a climb other than when he has been riding away for the win or just riding defensively in the last week?
I'm with you.OldEdScott
Jul 15, 2003 9:23 AM
For someone who's riding almost exclusively defensively, he seems to be alone a lot.
No way, Postal is way strong!noveread
Jul 15, 2003 1:34 PM
First, no, I don't think Heras is as strong in the mountains as he was last year. Heras was definitely the 2nd best climber last year.

Two years ago, Lance was alone often.

Whether a climb finishes on the top of a mountain or on a run-in after, it really is what happens on the climb that is the determining factor. If the other contenders "give it the onion" then, as others have said, a domestique should be shelled.

It'd be great to have a teammate with you all the time, but really, in the tour, with competition as it exists this year, is it so surprising that he's alone?

If Postal is so weak, where were Ulrich's teammates, or Tylers, or Vino's or Beloki's yesterday (yeah, E-E had two, but well, they're a team of goats!)? I mean, Bianchi, CSC, Telekom and ONCE din't have to pull the peloton all day so those teammates should have been well rested. But they weren't there either.

Let's be realistic here folks. Postal has been very, VERY strong.

The Empty Wrapper
Reread....Dwayne Barry
Jul 15, 2003 1:54 PM
I never said Postal wasn't strong, I said it looks like they're letting Lance down at crucial points. It's not a comparison with other teams just an assessment that when Lance could have used a little help it wasn't available, that doesn't demean what the team had already done.
Well, okay...noveread
Jul 15, 2003 5:18 PM
The job of the team is to deliver Lance to the crucial points of the race as rested as possible. It's up to the team leader to deal with the attacks of the main contenders.

The Empty Wrapper
wasn't it only about 4 kilometers from the finish? nmDougSloan
Jul 15, 2003 2:59 PM
or we could be seeing exactly what the pace of these climbsstik__boy
Jul 15, 2003 6:57 PM
does to those even considered to be good climbers. attack after attack by team after team has to be just killer. i think the other teams have finally figured out that the only way to sway the giant is to take turns having a swing at him. problem for them is that taking those swings will probably have more effect on them than him.