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Is Lance off form?(29 posts)

Is Lance off form?DougSloan
Jul 5, 2003 9:39 AM
5 seconds back in the prologue? What's up with that? Too careful in the corners?

Doug
Doug, let's be serious for a minute...merckx56
Jul 5, 2003 9:46 AM
A) why on earth would Lance want to win the prologue, just to give the jersey up tomorrow to a sprinter?
B)why would Lance take unnecessary risks on the first day of what could be a history making tour win, thus crashing himself out?
C)why win the prologue, and make your team defend for three full weeks? It takes the pressure of Lance and Postal for the first eight days, at minimum.

He didn't win it last year, or 2001 and still won. Didn't take long for the nay-sayers to question Lance did it Doug? How long had the prologue been over before you posted your complete lack of stage race tactical knowledge? 30...45 seconds?
good points but a bit harshweiwentg
Jul 5, 2003 9:55 AM
like I said in the other post, could be just a spot of (relatively) poor form, or as you said, he could be avoiding unnecessary risk. I have to point out, though, that a) Lance has always won his prologues or placed high (he got second to Millar in 2001) and b) even when he did win the prologue, his team never defended the jersey over all 21 stages.
I don't think it was harsh at all...merckx56
Jul 5, 2003 10:00 AM
considering that everyone and their siblings will be on here today either poo-pooing Lance or sucking Ullrich off for coming back in such fine form. Why come to the Tour on top of a fitness peak? Everyone needs to stop the armchair directeur sportif crap and just watch and enjoy the race. If we all knew so much about it, we'd be in France instead of on the computer arguing about it! Enjoy it for what it is, a spectacle filled with drama wrapped in the biggest and best bike race in the world!
That's what this forum is aboutSpyderRyder
Jul 5, 2003 10:05 AM
to discuss the Tour and give our thoughts about it and if you don't like it than why are you even here then in the first place? Yes Doug Sloan hates Lance. Yes Doug Sloan thinks that Lance will crack. Yes Doug Sloan wants Lance to crash and Ullrich to attack and take out a 15 minute lead. Yes Doug Sloan thinks Lance is out of shape. Yes Doug Sloan is the worst cycling fan in the history of cycling fans.

Dude c'mon chill out.
go away, thenDougSloan
Jul 5, 2003 10:54 AM
If you don't want to participate in the discussions, which you apparently do, then just go away. In fact, if you were so knowledgeable, why aren't *you* riding in the race, or at least directing a team? HMMM?

Doug
If you actually read my post....merckx56
Jul 5, 2003 3:45 PM
you'd notice that I said that if we all knew so much about it, we'd be in France,which translated into dumbass means that I really don't know that much either. I do know that making ridiculous assumptions about Lance's form after he loses 7 seconds in the prologue borders on ignorant. BTW there smartass, directing a team is infinitely harder than pushing the pedals round!
merckx56, are you losing control of your world?spyderman
Jul 7, 2003 1:44 AM
How can you seemingly try to control what others will discuss on these message boards? Doctor heal thyself... Why can't you sit back and just watch and enjoy the debates and enjoy it for what it is?
ouiDougSloan
Jul 5, 2003 10:50 AM
ok, Mr. SmartypantsDougSloan
Jul 5, 2003 10:52 AM
"Complete lack of stage race tactical knowledge?" I guess Lance must be an idiot, then, too, for having won the prologue before. You calling Lance an idiot?

If you are so smart, Mr. Smartypants, you tell us why he would win it one year and not another.

Doug
Nothing to to with tactics, I assure you...merckx56
Jul 5, 2003 3:54 PM
The effort put forth is metered, believe me. I've ridden with the guy, seen him weigh his food, in his own kitchen and seen him ride away from the group because it was time to. Everything is calculated. He wins one year and not the next because it's possibly more prestigeous to others to wear the yellow for one day, because they know they will never wear it in Paris.
This drives them to win the prologue. Lance will ride as hard as he sets forth. If he wins, he wins, if not, he see them in the mountains. The only tactic put forth by Postal today was to have ALL of the team ride well, thus placing them higher in the team standings, so that they could start last, or as close to it, in the TTT. That way, the get all of the splits from their rivals. Tactically, today was a brilliant ride, because it put all of the simpletons in the mindset that Lance may be off-form, and that he can be beaten. We've all heard it for 4 years and we'll keep hearing it unitl the peloton reaches Paris in three weeks!
Ullrich will quit before it's over!
Mr. Smartypants? Now that's harsh!Spoiler
Jul 5, 2003 8:43 PM
Well Mr. Wise-n-heimer....
Didn't win it last year???? nmDougSloan
Jul 5, 2003 11:06 AM
merckx56, would you say that to Doug if...spyderman
Jul 7, 2003 1:39 AM
you were standing in front of him at the office water cooler, or at a friends party?

Why is it we feel so empowered by flamming someone in the faceless, nameless internet?

Are you compensating for something? Is something else bothering you?

Perhaps if you stopped kicking your dog long enough you might have the ability to enter into a meaningful debate...
re: Is Lance off form?SpyderRyder
Jul 5, 2003 9:49 AM
Naw don't worry too much about it. Now FDjeux has to do the work on the front the next few days, saving the team for the Team TT and the mountains.

what I saw was Ullrich coming back and looking good, not sure he has the team to win it but if he can get into the Malliot Jaune than who knows how his team will respond. Looks like he's finally learned how to avoid the usual winter brat-and-stein fest that he usually goes through.
if you're having a bad day, have it during the prologueweiwentg
Jul 5, 2003 9:50 AM
no TV, so I didn't watch the prologue. but previous TDF winners (Big Mig aside) didn't necessarily have to win the prologue to win the Tour. he'll recover.
of course, people (ONCE riders especially, I'm sure) will start saying he's on the way down. he might be, but I'd bet not.
pity about Millar, though! if not for that chain...
Millar's chainDougSloan
Jul 5, 2003 9:52 AM
Yes, I bet some team mechanic is getting an earfull.

Doug
Millar's chain - probably Millar's faultweiwentg
Jul 5, 2003 4:25 PM
from Paul Sherwen's report on www.letour.fr:

"Millar in fact had been advised by his team manager Alain Bondue to keep his front derailleur on the machine even though he had removed one of the chain rings. The fact that he did remove it delayed his replacing the chain onto the rings and almost certainly cost him the stage."

ouch.

btw, re the discussion above, it's just an internet forum...
I doubt it, but USPS is definately...gala7516
Jul 5, 2003 10:22 AM
on form claiming 4 of the top 13 spots.
More importantly--MXL02
Jul 5, 2003 11:32 AM
Is Ullrich back in form? (and I really hope this doesn't count as sucking him off.) But he looked awesome today, and that coupled with some other excellent riders, Simoni, Hamilton, and Beloki, all gunning for Lance, and the fact that the course is not as brutal as years past, (which may help the competition more than Lance), may make this more of a race and less of the Postie machine steamrolling through to Paris. It should be an interesting Tour.
re: Is Lance off form?lanterne rouge
Jul 5, 2003 12:44 PM
I think that Lance rode exactly how he had to. No doubt, he wanted to win. He wants to win every time, contrary to what he may say, that is what makes him such an incredible cyclist. I think that the specialists had their day today, McGee in particular. What was really impressive, as stated a few posts above, was the other Postal members rides. USPS was obviously trying to get into a good TTT starting position. I think if anything happened today, it was Manolo Saiz sweating a bit watching the time of the Posties and knowing that he is missing his big engine Gonzales de Galdeano. I also say hooray for Ullrich! Nice to see him come back with such fine form. I don't believe that his team is strong enough to help him win the Tour, but he will have a fine Tour nonetheless. When you step back and look at the results today, not much was suprising besides the ride of Zubeldia. Simoni impressed me, losing only 6 seconds to Lance, it could be the start of a great battle. I actually feel a small bit of compassion for David Millar to, although I am sure he will spend his next three columns in Cycle Sport whining about how he could have worn yellow. There was not too much time difference in the favorites for G.C. (13 seconds difference in the first 20 spots)so I don't think we can read too much into this. Well maybe besides the race condition of Aitor Gonzales, unless he finds some kind of form he may have hurt his chances pretty badly for a Tour win already. Everybody that is looking to challenge for the G.C. had a decent ride, Postal and Lance have put themselves in a good position, I think this has the makings of a great Tour!
Great analysis, Lanterne.hrv
Jul 6, 2003 2:31 AM
It does look like it has the makings of a great Tour. I believe that Lance only puts as much effort out now as he needs to win the Tour, especially now that he's a year older! Also, he will not give up yellow once he gets it, and if he doesn't need to win a stage he is more than happy to let others share in the glory of wearing yellow.

Roll on , blue train, roll on!
Good points...Dwayne Barry
Jul 6, 2003 10:46 AM
I don't think anything can be taken from Armstrong's result other than that he's on pretty good form, same for Ullrich, Beloki, Millar, Hamilton, etc. I think the biggest surprises were Simoni (looks like he's held his Giro form) and then Gonzalez and Mayo appear off, and I couldn't even find Garzelli anywhere near the top. Did he start?
rMaybe a better question would be...gala7516
Jul 5, 2003 1:09 PM
...how much was he holding back? Is he already trying to screw with the competition?
Perhaps he rode just enough to stay competitive, but get other riders and teams asking the same questions that you are.
Don't think he was...peter1
Jul 5, 2003 3:24 PM
He admitted he made a mistake by not riding the course beforehand. (compared with Tyler, who said he rode it six times) That's kind of unlike him, and one reason Lance has won has been his meticulous preparation.

I was really impressed by Ullrich and Millar. What talents. McGee's a track specialist, and I wasn't surprised to see him win.
It's 40% worse than you stated, Doug!4bykn
Jul 5, 2003 3:00 PM
It ain't 5 seconds, it's 7 seconds.

And since, if I remember correctly, he's won the last 4 by a minimum of 5 minutes, hardly worth even mentioning. You may have a point about being careful in the corners since the road surface is cobbled, and he stands to gain only a few seconds with a win, but could lose so much more with a bad crash.

Ride in Peace....Mike
Just finished watching the rerun and ....Live Steam
Jul 5, 2003 3:58 PM
it is difficult to judge intent. Did he want to win and lose the jersey tomorrow? Not sure about that. He is a strange competitor. It is almost a certainty that he lost last years individual TT to Botero so the team did not take the jersey too early. One thing to note, though it too may not be of much consequence, he did wear the yellow jersey today and never wore it in previous Prologues. This race is as much a mental game as it is a physical test of endurance. I still have confidence he will pull it off.
re: wearing yellowcollinsc
Jul 5, 2003 5:20 PM
Not his call:

"Despite saying in a press conference yesterday that he would not wear the yellow jersey in the Tour prologue because he hadn't earned it, Lance Armstrong has now decided to start in yellow. Cyclingnews has learned that Tour boss Jean-Marie Leblanc made a personal appeal to Armstrong to wear the Maillot Jaune, out of respect to the founder of the Tour, Henri Desgranges. The jersey will have Desgrange's initials printed on it this year, and Lance has agreed to Jean-Marie Leblanc's request."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=2003/jul03/jul05news
Just finished watching the rerun and ....gray8110
Jul 5, 2003 9:28 PM
Several people (inlcuding liggett) have said that Armstrong didn't wear the yellow jersey in past prologues.. he didn't wear it last year. He wore it in 2000 & 2001.. last year he said more or less that he wanted to earn it before wearing it and didn't.. but he has in the past.. (not that I would have known that, but I watched the 2000 & 2001 prologues on VHS & DVD over the last few weeks.