|Cipo banned from Tour de France?||LDO|
May 19, 2003 9:41 AM
|Jean Marie Leblanc has announced that he will not invite the team Domina Vancanze to the Tour de Fance 2003. So, Cipo once again will be out.
The reason given by Leblanc seems to have to do with the fact that he doesn't want someone that just participates to a few stages of the Tour and retires from it when things start getting tough.
While being Italian myself , and of course liking the idea of seeing Cipollini at the Tour, I can somehow understand Leblanc's position. Very difficult decision indeed to decide not to invite the world champion.
I still hope Cipo will be given the opportunity to make it, also given that he is not that young any more, and chances to participate in the future years get fairly slim.
Your views on this subject ?
|re: Cipo banned from Tour de France?||SantaCruz|
May 19, 2003 10:00 AM
|I see it more as favoring a mediocre French team (Jean Delatour) over the World Champion's team who can interject some true excitement. Shame on the TdF!!|
May 19, 2003 10:12 AM
|Why invite a team whose star rider will most likely quit well before the end of the race?|
May 19, 2003 12:51 PM
|Why then invite 20 some teams whose only chance for an overall victory will be USPS's star rider in a major crash? Why a polka dot jersey? Green jersey? Best young rider's jersey?
The tour is much more than the chase for a yellow jersey (which, by the way, Cipollini has worn on a few occasions). Would he quit? Maybe, maybe not. Do any of the lowly French teams have a chance to put anyone on the podium? HA!
Cipollini has the second most stage wins of any active rider behind Armstrong (despite being shunned for the last 3 years), the all-time record in the Giro and to boot, the world champion's jersey on his shoulders. If that is not enough to put his team past some second-rate outfit with a few stage wins in some semi-obscure race around the French country side, I don't know...
I repeat what I posted in the general forum: Shame on you, M. Leblanc, just rename the whole thing "Tour des Francais" and be done with it!
May 19, 2003 1:19 PM
|He hasn't been invited since '99. He has shown at the Giro that he can get over the mountains and as noted in this thread promised to do so b/c he wanted a win on the Champs. His ego is big enough to where he would have done it.
LeBlanc is interested in seeing French teams prosper but he risks cheapening the Tour. With some of the names already missing the GC looks like more of a walk-thru for Lance than even last year and with snubbing Cipo does it really matter if McEwan defends the Green jersey? Of course it'll matter to McEwan but for non-partisans?
|I have to agree here .....||Live Steam|
May 21, 2003 7:57 AM
|Aside from Cipo not getting selected, it is a shame that the WC jersey gets no respect from the French organizers of the Tour. The jersey should get an automatic invite, no matter who the rider is. They are preventing cycling fans from seeing the WC on the biggest stage cycling has to offer. They actually cheapen the Tour with their pettiness. Cipo is great for cycling as well. He always acts with class and his flamboyance is just legendary. The Tour promoters should want the best of the best participating and there is no arguing who is the best sprinter of all time. Yes sprinters are a part of cycling, just as relief pitchers and DH are a part of baseball. I would bet that sprinters win almost 50% of the stages in Grand Tours. Why not have the best one there?|
|I have to agree here .....||atpjunkie|
May 21, 2003 2:57 PM
|without him it adds less legitamacy to the green jersey. would Zabel (whom I'm a fan of) have won all those consecutives if Cippo had been racing? maybe as Mario does drop and Zabel is consistent, but Mario's dominance of the field in last years Vuelta
put a serious question mark in this debate. The TdF by doing so becomes less of a Marquis Tour and more like the Giro and the Vuelta by it's homerism
|Leblanc is bull sh*t......||CharlesTT|
May 19, 2003 11:37 AM
|Mario said himself that it was his goal this year, after Milan S. Remo, to complete both the Giro and Tour. He also said he dreamed of being able to win on the Champs-Elysse during the 100th TDF. His team made the promise that they would ride the entire tour and be competetive the whole time. And i swear to you all, I read last year in a rule book for UCI that it is required to invite the previous years World Champion's trade team to at least the TDF. Must have changed. Why would they invite JeanDeLaTour? Ok they won 2 stages of the tour of romandie. Mario has many greater victories and this is the 3rd year in a row he hasn't been invited. I would rather see the MSS team than Jean.|
|It looks like he doesn't have to...||PatM|
May 19, 2003 12:07 PM
|I think its the world cup champ i.e Bettini Quick.Step-Davitamon
Here is the rule book - its a slow day at work ;^)
The organiser of a Major Tour is required to invite:
a) the «Top Clubs»
b) the winning trade team from the previous year's World Cup
c) the trade team to which the winner of the same event in the preceding year belonged
d) the trade team which won the team classification at the previous running of the event
e) the other TT/Is in the order of their UCI classification at the end of the last event of the previous
year's World Cup such that the total number of teams covered by a) to e) totals to 14.
In addition, the organiser may invite TT/Is and TT/IIs, giving primacy to sporting considerations
when making the selection. The selection of the accepted teams must be done and made public at
a) on 1 February for 4 teams
b) for the remaining teams :
- on 31 March for the Giro d'Italia
- 45 days before the start of the race for the Tour de France and the Vuelta
For the Tour de France, the number of teams taking part in the race shall be at
For the Giro d'Italia and the Vuelta a España, the number of teams taking part
in the race must be between 18 and 22. The organiser shall not be able to
refuse to allow TT/Is to participate if he has not invited at least 20 teams.
A Top Club must take part in at least two of the three Major Tours; otherwise it will be excluded
from the Top Clubs' the following year.
(text modified on 1.01.02; 1.01.03).
|According to the rulebook||lanterne rouge|
May 19, 2003 4:50 PM
|For the Tour de France, the number of teams taking part in the race shall be at least 21..........................
That effectively means that there is no limit to the number of teams. So ASO could have invited the French teams and Domina Vacanze. I understand, although I disagree with (More deserving teams include Milaneza especially and Phonak, Zulle could be an outside contender), the invitations extended to the French teams. Those French teams would basically fold if not invited, as evidenced by Big Mat (last year or the year before??). So LeBlanc is trying to protect French cycling, as I said before I understand that. He still should have invited DV because I do believe the Cipo would have finished this TDF based strictly on pride and the fact that he would have been able to feed his ego (Please don't get the wrong idea, I am a Cipo fan!) with a win (Or he would die trying!) on the Champs Elysses while wearing the rainbow stripes.
|it's another reason I hate the French||atpjunkie|
May 19, 2003 7:07 PM
|pure homerism. They can probably get around the WC rule as Cippo's team is not the 'same' (sponsorwise) as last year when he won. It's a hilly TdF and they assume he'll drop (he probably will).
They want to save "French Cycling" much like CHirac wanted to save French Francs (20 Billion $ worth) invested in Iraq by snubbing the coalition (sorry for the war flame). They are a bunch of whiny punks who are bitter that they lost all their thunder in the international community. Hell, the only way they can win at soccer is to use Algerians. It's going to be the 100th anniversarry and there will be nary a frenchman near the podium (except maybe a stage or 2) The Spanish will own the mountains, the aussies the sprints and the US the yellow and IMHO a 1-2 with Lance and Tyler on the podium. Hopefully Levi's form comes on and they go 1-2-3. or throw Beloki in there. An all coalition F the frechy centenarry present.
|Please, tell us how you really feel...||tremblay|
May 19, 2003 11:24 PM
|Unsubstantiated as usual. Such claims could be made against almost any country. France does not hold a monopoly over the selfishness you describe. I do believe the UK and the USA specialize in this field.|
|unsubstantiated HOW I FEEL||atpjunkie|
May 20, 2003 7:13 PM
|why don't you ''research' into who funded (nation and man) the first atomic power plant in Iraq (bombed by Israel in the first " aggressive defense move" now adopted by the US. (not that I approve of it) Second look into who funded this same man's return to French politics. Third what other former colonial power now claims holier than thou attitudes? last I checked there is or was no such thing as an American Indochina, American West Indies, American Guyana or American Polynesia nor the countless and troubled French Colonies in Africa. Algeria, Cote d'azur anyone?
I agree the UK and the US have as dirty hands as anyone, but they don't posture neutrality in world opinion. The French are a bunch of whiny ass punks and their TdF homerism shows it. Go there during a freaking metro strike, sheesh picketers stopped a stage in the TdF in the seventies. They should remove the freakin' red and blue from the flag and just have white, it's what they are always waving. Question: why are there so many trees on the Champs? Answer: so the Germans can march in the shade. Well over a hundred thousand Americans and Brits died liberating those bastards in 2 wars and the only ones thankful are in Brittany and Normandy. Check this "unsubstantiated fact" France produced more goods for the Third Reich than any other occupied Eurpoean Nation. Maginot line my A$$. Freakin Vichy laid down faster than a 2 dollar hooker. French Rifle for sale, shot twice, dropped once, white hanky still attached to bayonett.
Selfish yes, two faced NO!
May 23, 2003 6:48 AM
|dude, Jean Marie Leblanc is NOT "the French". the actions of one individual cannot and should not be generalized to an entire people. that's the same as saying that I see a criminal who is Black, therefore, all Blacks are criminals. or one White person is a bigot, therefore all Whites are bigots. besides which, I think the Americans are at least as nationalistic as the French in general.
secondly, the "the French are ungrateful for us liberating them in WWII" line is valid, but you have to consider this: which continental European power helped the United States in the War of Independence? it was, in fact, France! what about after the War of Independence; France was at war with Britain, and the US had treaty obligations to aid France. it didn't. perhaps the French have reason to be ungrateful!
I truly fail to grasp why some Americans have such negative attitudes toward the French. but even if one does have negative attitudes toward a group of people, this is a lesser crime than letting those attitudes get in the way of rational thinking.
|your points on genearlizing||atpjunkie|
May 23, 2003 3:06 PM
|are valid. I know my history of Franco / US relations, yes I know they helped with our liberation, they even gave us a nice statue to commemorate it. In return we gave them the framework for their democracy. (our Dec. of Ind. and Constitution) but look at France's motivation. It wasn't to 'help' us but 'hurt' the english (still hurting from French and Indian war), America had very little to gain in either World War (European Front WW2), IMH belief the US WW intentions were far less self serving than France's service in the revolution. as far as our lack of aid to France post war, our founding fathers were a little busy trying to hold a newly born country together (articles of confederance anyone?) to focus what little resources we had across a freakin' ocean.
Negative Attitude towards the French? I'm no ugly American. I'm quite a considerate and lo impact tourist when visiting other countries. Spend a month in Paris and you'll see why American's develope such attitudes. They had the 'attitude' long before. They were once a global colonial power, the lost that, but they still were the "cultural capital" of the western world. When the 'beat poetry movement, birth of Jazz and abstract expressionism rose in the late 40's and 50's in NYC, America stole their last bastion of national pride. IMHO they are still bitter. So if you plan a French holiday, spend it in Normandy, or the South. It's really Parisians that suck (not all, I know I'm generalizing again) and unfortunately all of France is generalized by them.
|He is effectively black-balled for life...||miposy|
May 19, 2003 1:12 PM
|He made this bed in the past my abandoning so many times, and there is no way out of this for him. They'll never let him race the TDF now, World Champion or not.
I think he was sincere this time, and I wanted to see him compete and finish, but they just don't trust him anymore. He withdrew one too many times.
It would have been fun watching him go up against O'Grady, Zabel, and that bast$%# McEwen (he really makes things interesting).
|re: Cipo banned from Tour de France?||spox|
May 20, 2003 2:25 AM
|Nothing against Cipo as a person and athlete, but I think that ephasis should be in overall result when grand touring.Thats why I rank Erik Zabel much higher. He can grind all the way through flatlands and mountains. Well he is allrounder with a fast sprint.
Cipo may get automatiqué selection for a Worlds and thats his playground (maybe not this year tough..) But TdF is Grand Tour. Cipo should have reacted earlier than last year (to change his training more towards overall stage racer)
|It's the French...what do you expect? nm||MXL02|
May 20, 2003 2:31 PM