|Pressure of maillot juane??? Give me a break!||elviento|
Jul 27, 2002 7:29 PM
|I am sorry, but this is a huge load of crap to say that Lance intentionally hold back to avoid the pressure of the maillot juane in the TT.
Some people may be too naive to admit that their hero may have a sh*tty day and be beaten in a TT he is good at, but last time I checked, he has worn the maillot juane the longest time among all active cyclists. Where does the pressure come from? As if he will attract any less attention if he is not in yellow.
Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of Lance too, but he is not god. Even the great Eddy lost half the races he entered into.
|re: Do you know for a fact that it is?||cyclejim|
Jul 27, 2002 8:03 PM
|I mean, we will never really know for sure one way or the other. Lance isnt unbeatable and he can for sure have a bad day.
But, consider this- Lance is famous for his cadence and he has a very consistent cadence which is quite a bit lower than he spun during the TT. Why on earth did he or would he spin that much higher during the TT? Did he just screw up?
|Assuming lance is not a liar, yes I know that for a fact.||elviento|
Jul 27, 2002 8:39 PM
|Lance said in the interview that he didn't feel fast and he was "disappointed" although it didn't do too much harm to the GC position.
But the "intentionally go slower than he can" theory just doesn't make ANY sense at all. Poeple are just trying to dramatize the race and sacredize Lance. That's all.
The thing about cadence is: maybe he did screw up. If I want to intentionally hold back, I can just ease up on the pedals a little. There is no need to use strange cadence to do that. What would you do? Today he noticeably used slower cadence and won the race.
|re: Pressure of maillot juane??? Give me a break!||CyclingWolf|
Jul 27, 2002 11:30 PM
|Not to argue the point, because lets face it I am not a Pro by any stretch of the imagination. I do believe that if anyone could pull off the potentially high stakes poker move it would be Lance. Lets face it I think Lance (If you believe all the articles, books, etc on how maticoulous his training, and precise, remember folks this is a guy who weighs his food) knows exactly what he can do at any point in the race, given his constant radio contact, times being given to him, the fact he can pull away like he does on the mountains stages, to be told he was 7 seconds down (remember he was 17 sec behind and made that up two fold today) I just think it is possible that he would know how much to pull back if neccessary. Yes he could have a bad day, we all thought that last year and he fooled everyone from P&P, camerman, etc... Winning the Tour to Lance is no different then a Masters Chess game and to win 5 and 6 ....I would like to have 1/10000th's of Lance's preparation strategies...
|but imagine how stupid he'd feel...||rufus|
Jul 28, 2002 3:21 AM
|if he were trailing by 9 seconds today. he had no way of knowing what would have happened in the mountain stages. he could have pulled an ulrich and ridden off the road.|
|It's called risks...||Ron B|
Jul 28, 2002 7:23 AM
|That's part of the game at the top level of competition. To him they are probably acceptible risks.
Before the tour ever starts Lance, Johan and USPS have a stratagy for the tour. They have ridden every important stage several times. During these training rides Lance looks for the best place for him to attack at based upon his abilities. On the TT stages he wants to know each and every corner so he knows where to go hard and where to go easy.
As for his conditioning he knows exactly how strong he is before entering the tour by measuring his wattage and comparing it to the previous years. According to Chris Charmichael he has a 7 week long peak that they try to achieve about a week or two before the tour starts and it will carry him to a week or so after the tour.
They go so far as trying to figure out to almost the exact second how long it will take him to complete an ITT and how much time he will take out of his competition during the ITT.
The only variable is what the others in the peleton are doing, or have done to prepare for the tour. Most of that can be figured out by looking at their performance during the pre tour races and comparing it to years past. I'd be willing to bet the take times of similar climbs from year to year and measure their competitors from year to year based on these numbers. They have a very good idea of who is going to be strong for the tour and how strong they are going to be.
Based upon this very scientific way of training he would have the ability to take acceptible risks during ITT's. If he doesn't want the Yellow that early he won't take it even if it's offered to him on a silver platter.
The simple fact is at this time in history, Lance is at least one level above the competition for the Tour de France. During the three week race he does what he wants when he wants and will probably continue to do so unless somebody else comes along with more talent and the same work ethic an preparation or Lance decides to hang it up for good.
|Lance does hold back, pressure or no.||Leisure|
Jul 28, 2002 3:55 AM
|Some of it is sheer pacing; you don't go all out all the time or you blow up, doesn't take a pro to figure that out. But how much does he hold back is the question, and how much of it is him messing around with his competitors. Perhaps he did have a bad day when he lost the first ITT, but he seemed to make comments alluding to his lack of intent to win it the day before. Now he maintains he would have liked to have won it but wasn't feeling too well at the time. It's probably true. Chances are he could have pushed harder and taken it - he only lost by two seconds, but it wouldn't have been worth the pain. Or worse, he could have set himself up for trouble in the following stage. Sure he's human - all the more reason to play these psychological games, baiting opponents to burn themselves out when he's got the advantage, feigning weakness here or there to lull everyone into a false sense of security so they don't attack too hard too often when it would hurt him most.|
|Lance does hold back, pressure or no.||elviento|
Jul 28, 2002 7:17 AM
|Your suggestions do make sense, mostly revolving around the idea of preserving energy for future stages, so he won't be like Jaja or Botero. That makes sense, but intentionally avoiding the yellow jersey "to avoid pressure"??? Any opponent who gets a "sense of security" that Lance is weak is just stupid, and I don't think there is one in the whole peleton.|
Jul 28, 2002 11:52 AM
|...think about what happened to ONCE once Gonzalez de Galdeano was in yellow - spending a lot of time controlling breakaways, at the front of the peleton, etc.
I don't think "holding back" was so much to benefit Lance as it was to keep the rest of the Postie legs fresh for when the real advantage could be gained (in the mountain stages), and the yellow successfully defended.
Whoever said that this is like a chess game was right on the mark.
Jul 28, 2002 1:09 PM
|if he didn't really want the yellow jersey at that point, he'd just have postal not work to defend it and let someone else take it. makes more sense than sandbagging a time trial.|
Jul 28, 2002 1:32 PM
|Actually it would be easier to sandbag the time trial. In the time trial he gets constant time updates and he can hold the time deficit to what ever he wanted.
If he decides to have the team not work as hard on a stage everybody sees it. Sponsers, spectators, etc. Not a good scenario
In the ITT he holds back a little, takes 2nd, looks like he went all out, doesn't take the jersey yet, makes everybody happy and he makes others in the peloton question his fitness levels making Once work harder to protect the yellow for a few more days.
Things to remember about the ITT that Lance lost. His heart rate was 7-12 beats lower than normal, his cadence was held to around 120 rpm and he gave up time at the end of the ITT instead of during the whole race.
At this time we all know his fitness level was as good as ever and it's very doubtfull that he would loose time at the end of the ITT, unless he wanted to.
|They got exactly that sense...||JSchneb|
Jul 29, 2002 7:38 AM
|Igor actually said "things are changing in the Tour. Armstrong is not as strong in the Time Trials as he used to be" after stage 9.|
|Some of Armstrong's words today...||Ron B|
Jul 28, 2002 7:37 AM
|"This is not a race to win by as many seconds or minutes as possible, it's a race just to win. So there's no need to be aggressive."
"I can remember in 1999 being so nervous every day and worried that I would lose the race in an instant," Armstrong said Saturday. "I don't have those fears any more."
It would appear it's not about the pressure of holding the Yellow jersey, at least not anymore. It's more about measureing your abilities, measuring your opponents, conserving energy when you can and expending energy when needed.
|re: Pressure of maillot juane??? Give me a break!||Pecos|
Jul 28, 2002 8:57 AM
|I do believe it was a psycological tactic. He wanted to "take" the yellow jersey on the first day of the big mountain stages. Remember this Tour was planned to hurt LA by placing the mountains in the last week forcing him to expend energy fduring the first two weeks. I think it was kind of like and in your face move - not only to the competition, but to the planners of the TDF. I agree with some other posts that said he knew he was only a few seconds back and probably could have easily made them up. It would have spoiled his plan though. He played this Tour like a fiddle. JMO|| |