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I'm no armchair DS!!!!(12 posts)

I'm no armchair DS!!!!Cima Coppi
Jul 26, 2001 7:12 AM
A couple of days ago I wrote JU would probably not help the team get Zabel in the maillot vert. Well, as I have been in this entire TdF, I was wrong!! JU was on the for front of helping his man in the points competition. I say it takes a lot of courage to risk ones second place spot overall to help ones teammate win another competition. What a sport, I love it!!!! There is seldom the selfishness in professional cycling that we see in our brainless american team sports.

Allez Ullrich, Armstrong and the rest of the Peloton!!!!
I wonder...mr_spin
Jul 26, 2001 7:59 AM
Today was the first finish I missed watching live. But another thing that separates cycling from the brainless sports is that I'm sure that Ullrich asked permission from Armstrong to participate in the leadout. Because of his GC position, traditional etiquette demands that he would have to ask the race leader and "patron." I wonder how that was done. Did he actually ask, or did they just exchange nods as Ullrich got into the line?

Armstrong would certainly have no problem with it, since Ullrich couldn't really escape and get 5 minutes back! Telekom might have even cleared it with Cofidis and ONCE as well, since Ullrich could theoretically slip over the line and collect a time bonus.

Last year, I saw a scene where Virenque (ugh), approaching the top of a climb, looked back to Armstrong. Armstrong gave him a nod, and Virenque (ugh) sprinted to the top to pick up the KOM points. No words were exchanged. It was kind of cool. Can you imagine a cornerback giving a receiver the nod to pick up a few more yards?
Listened to the live audio feed....Cima Coppi
Jul 26, 2001 8:08 AM
and JU finished 26th today, and LA finished 32nd. JU did his job for Zabel, then slid back down the pack. No real gains for him today. He'll put on a clinic tomorrow, and he may be able to take some time out of LA, but certainly not more than 1:00.

I wonder...jschrotz
Jul 26, 2001 9:07 AM
I don't think Ullrich asked for Armstrong's permission to lead out his teammate in a sprint, especially since he wasn't going to be leaving the group. I'm sure Armstrong and USPS are well aware that Telekom's new focus is to get Zabel back in green. You usually only need to ask the "patron" for permission to go up the road away from the bunch or to tell him that you're slipping to the back to take a pee or visit the team car so that no dangerous attacks are permitted in the meantime.
Whats the point of attacking American sports?Only300
Jul 26, 2001 8:06 AM
I agree with you about JU and the peleton. I am also a huge fan of Eurpean sports like football (soccer), tennis, cycling etc. They are more finesse sports.

American sports are more "brute-force," but that does not make them bad or "brainless." In baseball, a player hits a sacrifice fly so that another teammate can score. The sacrifice fly hurts the players hitting average but it helps the team. In football, linemen sacrifice their bodies to protect the quarterback and half backs.

I'm tired of hearing all this American-bashing. Yes, some Americans are VERY ignorant, stupid and annoying. But there are other Europeans just like that, probably not as much because America is a big country, with quite a few who can survive as being ignorant.

Sorry for rambling, but I felt I had to express this
American sports reflect our barbaric culture!!Cima Coppi
Jul 26, 2001 8:22 AM
This is one reason why cycling, tennis, soccer, etc have not been able to become popular over here. There is not enough action for our football, basketball, hockey loving couch potatoes. Americans want instant action, lots of scoring, and loudmounth egotistical trash-talking athletes. Even baseball is loosing ground because there is not enough action in three hours of play. The European sports are much more pleasant to watch because sportsmanship is a primary focus.
American sports reflect our barbaric culture!!MeDotOrg
Jul 26, 2001 9:24 AM
Excuse me, but "Even baseball is losing ground because there is not enough action in three hours of play"?

What attendance and revenue statistics you have to back that up? Baseball lost ground in the 70's and 80's, but it has done very well in the last decade. "America's National Pastime" can hardly be called "barbaric".

And as for hockey, I believe that is pretty popular in Norway, Sweden, Russia, Poland, Finland, Canada, and the Czech Republic, as well as with "American couch potatoes".

I'm not saying that American football and basketball don't have their share of "egotistical trash talking athletes". But to say "American sports reflect our barbaric culture" is too simplistic an answer. A lot of "trash TV" shows are spawned in Europe or Japan. Anyone who saw the behavior of British football fans at the last world cup cannot say that the British are always the model of civility. There are some rather large exceptions for every stereotype.

Once upon a time, cycling WAS big in America. For a lot of different reasons, many of them having nothing to do with any inherent barbarism in our culture, its popularity faded. I wish it were more popular, but I'm not going to dismiss its lack of popularity with a simple sterotype.
Action has nothing to do with itOnly300
Jul 26, 2001 11:45 AM
Barbaric??? What about those Hooligan fans that KILL during football (soccer) matches??? That is barbaric.

Almost every kid growing up in the US plays soccer, and every kid rides a bike. The reason that they are not popular is because no advertiser is willing to pay and no top network is willing to broadcast sports like those. Tennis and golf, for example, are gaining popularity in America. This is partly due to young stars and partly due to support from the media. The average Joe Blow, who is not that intelligent, will watch whatever is on TV. The problem is not lack of action but lack of TV coverage. Unfortunately that is the case because there are way too many people in America blindly watching TV.
Oh really? Explain to me how sportsman likeLive Steam
Jul 26, 2001 12:05 PM
soccer clubs and their respective fans are in Europe? There is nothing sportsmanlike about it. Fans brawl and kill each other. Fans shoot referees and officials. Players commit flagrant fouls on each other. Soccer players are as arrogant and loud mouthed in Europe as American star athletes can be. There are thousands of American professional athletes, and only a small percentage get the news because of the non-social behavior. Roberto Alomar was very un-sportsmanlike, but he is a star so he got a pass from his peers. But, the fans have not forgotten. Whenever he is in NY he gets trashed.

Cycling also has is fair share of un-sportsmanlike attitudes. What is doping about? Fair play? Cycling fans constantly try to intimidate riders. I am not so sure that the things you cited as sportsman like in the Peleton is really that great. Allowing someone to take a stage because it terminates in their home town is cheating the viewing public out of a good race. Not contesting a position because of the Peleton Politic is also disturbing at times. Don't look at cycling and Euro Sports through rose colored glasses.
Not to mention...Lazy
Jul 26, 2001 2:48 PM
That in the 2000 TdF a rider, whose name now escapes me, was kicked out for punching Bobby Julich.

2001 Giro- Belli kicked out for punching a fan.

Also, I forgot which race it was (Giro or Vuelta), but Cipo was in pretty big trouble last year for fighting with another rider.
don't forget the Italianos in Breaking Away! nmDog
Jul 27, 2001 8:05 AM
Hey, the guy insulted Cipo's mommr_spin
Jul 27, 2001 8:47 AM
Or something to do with the honor of his mother. Use your imagination to fill in the blanks. That was in the Vuelta last year, and Cipo was right to clock the guy. Cipo used his time off very effectively, training and resting, and winning four stages of the Giro this year.

Jerome Blylevins of Lotto (I don't feel like looking up the right spelling) is the guy who punched Julich. He was DQ'ed from the tour after it was over! Amazing.