|Lance takes as much drama out of the race as he put in it.||Canidraftyou|
Jul 25, 2001 6:20 AM
|Lance takes as much drama out of the race as he put in it. Im sorry, I have the Middle Linebacker mindset. Seek and destroy! Why not just kick ass. I know some of you Gu-bbers are going to say I dont understand the tactics, wrong! Once the Mt. stages are over, who cares. We are watching the greatest cyclist taken it easy (Sunday stolling), the race is in front, where the break away is, the guys looking to make a name for themselves. I think its no longer speculation, reference to Jan giving his hand. The tour has not been the same since, Jan giving his hand was a signal to the world, the tour is over, I have lost, and Lance has won. All the tour is at this point is a "Social Event" thats weak. If the truth must be known, the only thing keeping people on edge is, WHAT IF LANCE CRASHES? The only drama left is can the postal team surround Lance and keep him out of trouble? And they'll be praised for a good job. I believe Lance himself has said more than once the mural was down at the Breakfast table and they were beat up. Like I said in earlier post, the team is weak. You have to ask, why would the mural be down? Must I answer that. You all know, its simple, they was not getting the job done in the early stages. RIGHT!!! There is a couple of you all that owe an apology, keep it, you dont have the balls too. The other day, a local crit had more Drama than tour tour in the past few days, truth not ____________ . Your catching on.
|This is one reason why I like the Giro better than the TdF||Cima Coppi|
Jul 25, 2001 6:32 AM
|During the Giro, they race the flat stages in the first half of the race, then the race the mountains in the second half. There is dramatic racing until the day they race into Milan. My suggestion, put the last ITT back on the last stage into Paris. There has never been as much drama in a TdF before or after that 1989 race. |
|This is one reason why I like the Giro better than the TdF||MichaelY.|
Jul 25, 2001 8:22 AM
|I could not agree more. The last stage seems like a non event. The time trial would at least allow some of the positions to change.
What would be even better is to Forget Paris finish on a Mountain Stage. If the race is won in the mountains, award the Yellow there!! Just a thought.
|It's amazing that many think the Tour is harder||bartali|
Jul 25, 2001 11:11 AM
|The Tour is more prestigious than the Giro. Always has been, always will be. But it is not harder to win. In the past it used to be. But the organizers of the Giro have made it even more difficult than the Tour in the last decade.
In my opinion the Giro is proabably more difficult to win even though it lacks the prestige.
|Giro is gaining prestige for its difficulty...||Cima Coppi|
Jul 25, 2001 11:42 AM
|This is evident by the fact the those riders who want to win the TdF are not competing in the Giro, and those who have competed to win the Giro are not in the TdF. |
I think the true test to a rider's greatness is for him to win both now. Pantani did it, and I think both LA and JU could. A really great rider would win the triple crown (Giro, TdF, World Road Race Championship). Remember Stephen Roche?
|Giro is gaining prestige for its difficulty...||bartali|
Jul 26, 2001 7:17 AM
|Well I wouldn't consider Stephen Roche an all time great. He won those three races in 1987 where there was no Hinault (retired), no Lemond (hunting accident) and (if I am not mistaken) an out of form Fignon.
Pantani was a great climber and couple that with the fact that he is Italian (Italians MUST ride the Giro and the really good ones do the Tour) therefore after he won the Giro, it was almost a given that he would win the Tour that year. It was a climber's Tour just as it was a climber's Giro in 1998. But he is not or was not a great cyclist.
I do agree with you that in order to be considered a great cyclist there are a few things you have to do: Win Giro and Tour in the same year, set the hour record, and finally win/place consistently in the Euro classics.
Lance Armstrong has the ability to do all. But he decides not to.
|This is one reason why I like the Giro better than the TdF||trimble|
Jul 26, 2001 6:46 PM
|Cima is right on the money. The Tour's last week tends to be a non-event when the race leader has a substantial lead (like the current Tour). Keep Lance out of trouble, that's all that Postal has to do. The Giro has the potential of being much more dramatic due because of the finish in Milan and its proximity to the high mountains. Remember the 2000 Giro? Casagrande looked like the winner because he dominated the race for the first two weeks, but the mountains eventually did him in and Garzelli pulled in out in the MTT on the second to the last day. I think the '97 Giro had some drama as well. Tonkov kept the heat on Gotti till the end. The Tour recently has not had such drama (well, maybe the '97 Tour when Pantani put in the TT of his life during the last week). The last week (except for an the last TT) is boring because the terrain is simply too flat. Maybe if they finished the Tour in Bordeaux or Grenoble (just somewhere close to the mountains) - then you'd have a higher chance of an exciting finish to the Tour.|
|Lance attacked right at the start today!||mr_spin|
Jul 25, 2001 7:36 AM
|Did you see it? The train gates came down right after all the jersey winners went through, cutting off 95% of the peloton, so he attacked. It was a joke, of course. Jalabert seemed to enjoy it.
It ain't Lance taking out the drama. It's everyone else. Lance has done his job, gotten the jersey, and now it's up to someone else to knock him off. If Ullrich doesn't want to do it, what can Lance do?
If anything, blame Beloki and Kivilev for not even trying to get back some time on Ullrich. Neither is actually capable of doing so (Ullrich is too strong), but to not even try is pathetic. Lance has 5 minutes on Ullrich, but Ullrich only has seconds over the other guys. Come the TT, Ullrich is going to spank them hard, so why not try to gain a few seconds now?
I thought this stage was perfect for Ullrich. He's put in some fantastic one-day performances, and this was just hilly enough for him to excel. I really wanted him to take a flyer today. Sure, Lance would be on his wheel, but so what? Two of the best time trialists in the world? If they worked together, they could easily drop the field and fight it out at the finish. What a show that would have been.
Jul 25, 2001 8:27 AM
|Like Bernard Hinault once said: "It is a race for second." That's that. It's pointless for Lance to attack or whatever now... it's all just overkill. He's got his third Tour in a row in the bag and he's happy.|
|You really are an American aren't you...||Dan K.|
Jul 25, 2001 8:50 AM
|...wow. That was one of the most truly inspired American sentiments to come along on the forum in a bit.
"Seek and Destry" at all costs. Be number one..."Lemme tell YA sumthin' cowboy".
This is a true American mentality and one that does not truly understand the mindset of PROFESSIONAL cycling, nor a more civilized culture.
Good luck "Middle Linebacker"
|re: You really are an American aren't you...||ak|
Jul 25, 2001 9:04 AM
|I love it when people are so arrogant to believe, to truly believe that their entire anthropological status is inherantly superior to that of the rest of the world. Congrats, you just took over first place.|
|re: You really are an American aren't you...||jaybird|
Jul 25, 2001 9:15 AM
|wow that's pretty heartless tagging this poor guy with the algore mascot... Meggadittos on making the last stage an ITT... Allez Lemond!!!|
|My response to your photo...||Canidraftyou|
Jul 25, 2001 9:51 AM
|Give me a saddle and ill give 110% effort in riding that Jackass. Unlike most in the tour, in the closing days. Pictures!!! You dont have the power to express yourself in words. I forgive you.
|Less than 110% is not worthy of TV time.||Canidraftyou|
Jul 25, 2001 9:31 AM
|I want to see people put out 110%. Not an a Sunday stoll. Hey "Dan K" why do most agree with me. If Professional Cycling is about giving in halfway through a tour, then Professional Cycling is not what I want. I think that is the differnce between those who have the gene, and those who fight for everything they have. I have always fought for everything I achieved and shall never give in. Head strong yep, cowboy yep, Middle Linebacker yep, Winner by effort, YOU GOT IT!!!
|You really are an American aren't you...||Pogliaghi|
Jul 25, 2001 8:38 PM
|...hmm, search and destroy? Win at all costs? Wasn't there someone from sometime back in the annals of this sport who tended towards that mindset. Was he American? No, Belgian I think, yeah, Belgian. Went by the name of Eddy Merckx. Yup, he was a really civilized and cultured European. They called him the "Cannibal." |
I can understand why LA and Postal are protecting the jersey. But, man it'd be cool if Postal were to reel in those breakaways and have George set Lance up for the bunch sprints. That would stir things up for O'Grady and Zabel. He's got the Yellow, why not go for that green, ...geez, he's close enough to contest it.
|Thats what im saying...Get all you can, you'll regret it later.||Canidraftyou|
Jul 26, 2001 10:50 AM
|Why not get the Green Jersey? I know why, he is playing the Media field. Wanting to be the most popular. Hell, I like the guy and think he is a hell of a cyclist. Why not go for all that you can. If I should get to the pizza bar before you, watch out! Im not going to hold back, im getting my favorite slices and then one more...LOL. Hey, thats the way it is aint it. For me it is. Just becasue I win a prime at a local crit, dont mean I should stay out of the running for the finish. Or have I been doing it all wrong?
|so, is this the 1st time you've watched the Tour?||Shockee|
Jul 25, 2001 9:28 AM
|There never is any drama from the Maillot Jaune after the mountains, except for the very important ITT (on Friday). It has always been this way and always will. ... unless another Mercz comes along, LOL! The riders are pretty beat up right now, so even stage winning is a limited affair - but at least a bit exciting nonetheless. Stage wins are still the holy grail for sprinters with huge stakes and deep competition compared to your little bushwacking local crit.
Of course, I slept in until 9:00 and missed the live feed the last two days without regret.
|Then do this...||Canidraftyou|
Jul 25, 2001 9:39 AM
|In a tour with 20 stages, put the last day of the mountain stages, four days shy of the 20th and last day. This would alway a day for Group riding like the day we all saw today, then have a Time Trail, and then two days of Drama at the end. I guess that makes to much since.
|Want excitement? - Watch the Sprinters||yohan|
Jul 25, 2001 9:54 AM
|I agree that the drama factor has died down a bit since stage 13, but who cares? The thing that will make the tour interesting from this point on is the competition between Zabel and O'Grady. Also, the ITT on Friday will add some interest as well.
Plus, LA busted his butt for the first six months of the year to be in "Yo-yo" on this side of the mountains. It takes a different kind of mentality to appreciate the effort and discipline he put forth to be here.
I agree that it is a particularly Western attitude to want the 110% all the time and all the drama, crashes, explosions and special effects we get from Hollywood. (A year long effort crammed into an action sequence that lasts 10 minutes or less.) Our minds feed on instant everything and adrenaline rushes (no wonder we have road rage).
The Tour is a nice blend of it all. There is excitement and drama in the mountains and at the sprint finishes, and then there are the BORING days like yesterday where the riders ONLY averaged 27mph over 144 miles!
I'd like to see a middle linebacker do 27mph on a bike for 5 hours and then tell me he wasn't giving 110% (or more).
Jul 25, 2001 11:11 AM
|The tour has to end in Paris, Paris is "France."
But it would be more exciting if the last stage included some good mountain climbing.
Ergo, we simply need to move Paris into the mountains.
|Simple solution 2||Bruno S|
Jul 25, 2001 1:11 PM
|It would be easier to move the mountains to Paris.|
|re: Lance takes as much drama out of the race as he put in it.||Roadrage|
Jul 25, 2001 11:32 AM
|Seems like Lance giving 110% at this stage in the race would be as exciting as Florida State keeping the starters in while leading Duke 73-10.|
|So tell me something Canidraftyou...||NeedySpeedy|
Jul 25, 2001 11:45 AM
|How many 3 week tours have you raced at 110% the whole time? Damn, if its too "boring" for you then dont watch!
Your handle says it all...
|re: Lance takes as much drama out of the race as he put in it.||Peter E|
Jul 25, 2001 12:02 PM
|I haf to agree that it is a bit boring when some unimportant riders (for the GC) are allowed to do a 30 min breakaway and the pelton don't even really bother. BUT, these guys have been racing very hard now for 16 days, can't really expect them to be able to still go flat out. But some of them really do!!! Bradley Mcgee who finished second today was so tired that he didn't remeber the last k's, and it was all black before his eyes when he finished. If that aint going 110%, then i don't now what is.
How could you even push yourself to go that far?? OK to push yourself to get to the finish, but to still race hard?? where do they find the strength to continue??
|TO CANIDRAFTYOU YOU MUST READ: What the hell are you on??||Spyder Ryder|
Jul 25, 2001 4:43 PM
|This post is truly a sad post, with your ignorance you have shown the whole forum how much you do not know. First of all are you actually watching the Tour?? I cant see anyone who is watching the 2001 Tour de France say the type of stuff that you are saying. Lance did say that the team mOral (with an o dumbass not a u) was down, but to put it in your simple terms, if a team scores a touchdown or has an int the moral changes instantly, right brainiac??
Lance said recently that when he is at the dinner table and he looks across he sees that the moral on USPS is sky-high. They did do their jobs, they chase down breakaways, push the pace and apparently you did not even watch the mountain stages. Rubiera and Heras were right in Lance's back pocket all the way up the climbs. Lance also said that in one of the breaks of 6 people, 3 of them were USPS, Lance, Rubiera, and Heras, you cannot have it any better than that. I have seen nothing but good things from those two riders. Yes Hamilton has been sick but thats not his fault by any means. USPS held back the first week because thats what they were ORDERED to do by Bruyneel, yes they may of mad a little mistake with the 30-min breakaway, but Telekom, Festina, Kelme, and ONCE all did the same.
As for the drama, if you dont like it, DON'T WATCH IT DUMBASS!!!! AND GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE!!!! I'm not sure I would even want you as a cycling fan since you do not appriciate it as much as you should. Go back and watch your little ghetto crit, I'd rather watch the big-boys rumble through France in July. Better yet move to Alabama and watch NASCAR all day with your sister-wife,
"Seek and destroy," hmmmm and you wonder why the rest of the world doesnt like Americans. Let me ask you this football games are about 2 hours on average right?? so tell you what, get some steroids, lift some weights, get drafted by the NFL, play 2 games a day, or one five hour game and do it for 20 days straight against the top players in the world with your seek and destroy-110% menatality. Just make sure you get me some season tickets so I can laugh my ass off watching you kill yourself.
|TO CANIDRAFTYOU YOU MUST READ: What the hell are you on??||LBS Guy|
Jul 25, 2001 7:30 PM
|Hell I'm an American, and now i understand why everybody hates us, all "we" want is a quick thrill, we want to be entertained, we dont want to have to understand the pain and suffering that goes into the progress. When in middle and high school i played football i hated it, because i could go out there and whoop ass without working my ass off, going to practice everyday for 2 hours and i'd kick ass, in cycling if i want to win a race i have to go and work 5 hours a day, work on certain techniques, certain strengths and weaknesses, have to eat right, have to conserve energy have to have backup reserves, and i still might not win. Has all that work gone to waste? I think it makes me a better person than most of my fellow americans, my friends want their bosses to give them a raise, I want my boss to give me more hours so i can work for that money, and work for a raise. Cycling has taught me more lessons in life than school, than any other sports, even than work has. I've been taught to appreciate what i've got, and that i have to work hard for success. I've learned you cant give %110 the whole time and expect to win, you have to plan and stratigize, maybe you have to give %110 on this hill to get over it with the group, then lay off on the flats so that you dont burn out before the last major hill. I hate "americans", i rmember in highschool a friend once said i wasn't an american cause i hated football it was stupid to me, i told him i was glad i was better off not being an "american"
Now i just have to figure out where in europe i can move to get away from "americans" and be with people who understand not only cycling but life.
Later, and remember its not the bikes fault you cant ride for beans.
|mural vs. moral||jaybird|
Jul 26, 2001 5:21 AM
|I think you mean morale with an "E" I don't think the posties have a problem with morals... Remember it is always better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as an idiot than to open it and remove all doubt... IMO|
|I hear yeah||Canidraftyou|
Jul 26, 2001 11:39 AM
|Mural vs. Morale, hey what can i say, im working 12 hr days and riding 14 hrs a week and not getting alot of sleep since I feel that I must show a response to most all the postee's. My bad, you got me this time. :P
|re: Lance takes as much drama out of the race as he put in it.||rodemiles|
Jul 25, 2001 5:51 PM
|It's not Lance's, or USPS's, mission to make this an exciting tour: their mission is to win it. If it makes for a dull last week don't blame them, blame the other teams that can't keep up to force the action. The tour is always won in 2 places: the time trials and the mountains. It so happens that the best rider at both is Lance. As for the idea that Lance should continue to attack when he's got it wrapped up, that really shows a lack of understanding how the race is won. To attack now for no reason would be to endanger the yellow jersey that your teammates have worked their collective asses off to help you get. A large part of their salary and recognition comes from being on the team of the yellow jersey. I know if I'd busted my ass for 3 weeks to help the leader and he did something stupid (like attacking for no reason) to risk my financial reward, we'd have a serious talk that night. And I'm sure I'd have to get in line behind Johan and the rest of the riders. The first place money is split up equally among the team and support personnel: the leader has the obligation to protect their financial interests. And no matter if the end of the race is anti-climatic, there's a real thrill to seeing the Postal team lead the peloton into Paris with the yellow jersey in tow. Especially since the French despise Lance.|
|Many sports are over with lots of time to go...||Live Steam|
Jul 25, 2001 7:05 PM
|Baseball games when a team scores 8 runs in the first inning. Soccer games when a team scores two or three goals quickly. Same for hockey except maybe a few more goals. The Tour is different because it is a multiday event. But, I must agree with the posters that say the other teams have to take it to Postal to make it more interesting. If they don't, Postal is going to sit on their lead and not take any risks. This is nothing new by the way. Aside from not risking what you already have, just like in other sports, piling on is not appreciated by competitors.|
|Blood Pressure Check, Ya'll chill...||Canidraftyou|
Jul 25, 2001 8:17 PM
|Ok, ya'll sit down and breath. Dont get so worked up...DAMN!!! No carbs for most of ya. Your getting snooked. This is too be fun. See, im smiling :)
|"This is too be fun." ???||mike mcmahon|
Jul 25, 2001 8:29 PM
|I have no idea what that is supposed to mean, but the scary part is that it's about the most intelligent thing you've said since you started posting here.
Peace back at you.
|I am sorry, I don't understand...||Lou M|
Jul 26, 2001 5:13 AM
|Does anyone have an ebonics dictionary?|
Jul 27, 2001 3:55 PM
|I've never had "fun" riding, i dont ride 100miles because its "fun",I dont climb mountains as fast as i can on my bike because it's "fun", I dont eat good food because its "fun", Hell I dont even ride my girlfriend because its "fun", this isnt a sport about "fun", its about truth, I Love Cycling thats why I ride, I love the truth cycling tells you about yourself, not about how much "fun" it is
Remember cycling is a triangle, you, the bike, the road, but sometimes one is left out, sometimes its you and the bike no road, sometimes its you and the road no bike, but is it ever the bike and the road without you?
|re: Lance takes as much drama out of the race as he put in it.||JimF|
Jul 26, 2001 11:27 AM
|I was on the edge of my seat for the mountain stages. The 35 minute breakaway kept this one interesting a lot longer than some in the past. After the the first couple of years, the Indurain wins were as "boring" as could be, but it was amazing to see a rider just dominate the competition at such a high level.
Lance is a competitor, but he's not a middle linebacker. No decent middle linebacker will ever win a mountain stage in the TdF.
On the other hand, how about a full-contact "TOUR DE FORCE"? Say a combination of bicycling and kickboxing. The domestiques could carry truncheons. THAT would show those Euro-snobs and Euro-trash how to put on a bike race!
I'm not flaming, just having fun. No offense intended.
Jul 26, 2001 11:33 AM
|Never would call upon LA to play MLB. I was talking about mind set. Allowing the passion to burn from start to finish. Not bunting one day and then going for a home run the next day. I know its all about getting LA in the yellow. He has the ability to do more, why not do more? THATS ALL IM ASKING.
|They just brought in their "dime package", that's all. (nt)||JimF|
Jul 26, 2001 11:43 AM
|Because it wouldn't be "sportsmanlike" in the eyes of||Live Steam|
Jul 26, 2001 12:33 PM
|the Peleton. Stages need to be won by other teams and other riders to make everyone happy including the Tour organizers. Besides if LA took more stages the Euro press would be on him like never before. The doping allegations would run rampant.|
|Wait until tomorrow||Bosephus|
Jul 26, 2001 11:56 AM
|You want Drama?
You're bound to get some during the ITT...