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Lance & the French(23 posts)

Lance & the Frenchzelig1
Jul 25, 2001 12:37 AM
An interesting article this morning in the London Times by Simon Barnes, not to be confused with Mr. Negative and Innuendo, David Walsh of the Sunday Times.

re: Lance & the Frenchbartali
Jul 25, 2001 5:01 AM
The problem is more than Lance Armstrong, it's just that the French have this eternal hatred for anything American. Some of it is warranted and, of course, some of it is not.

Sure Armstrong can be arrogant and unlikeable but I find him at times compasionate and humble. He has definitely improved when compared to the way he was before he went ill with cancer. Back then he was just intolerable.
Right!RhodyRider
Jul 25, 2001 5:09 AM
LA certainly was a spoiled primadonna before his illness. I guess a visit to death's door tends to force maturity on an individual. I didn't care for him in his pre-cancer whiny muscle-boy iteration, but now I respect him and admire his dedication to his sport and his "new" life.
re: Lance & the FrenchJustSpinnin
Jul 25, 2001 8:57 AM
Humph! Bloody interestin peace of literature there.

What..What..

Just a guy who writes for a living. Wrong comes in all sizes/colors/flavors.

Keep Spinning!
The truth of the matter, "Dont give a Damn what French think"Canidraftyou
Jul 25, 2001 5:31 AM
I dont give a Damn and Lance should not either, reference to how the French think. Its another culture and unless you grow up within that culture or spend lots of time there which he (LA) does, you'll never fully understand. Hell, LA is a Texan, they are very proud people for that matter. Why? I'll never know. I think Texas sucks. He should be doing the sport for himself. And I think he is.

Peace out,
Power of the press!!Cima Coppi
Jul 25, 2001 6:06 AM
I think the tides of French perception of LA would be turned 180 degrees if the press wrote positively about him. Remember, people are weak minded and easily lead along the path of others beliefs. This holds true in the U.S. as much as Europe, and it goes far beyond cycling. This happens to everyone from movie and music celebrities to politicians to sports figures. If the press writes negative articles about them to get a good story, the public typically believes every word of it.

The moral of the story is to take the writings of the press with a grain of salt. We cannot be lead like a herd of cattle into the beliefs of a few "educated" individuals.
That is sad, but true...Only300
Jul 25, 2001 7:05 AM
One thing that I have noticed from experience is: When Europeans visit America, be it British or French or Swedish,I do not see them being treated any differently. People are friendly with them and they are not looked down upon. When an American visits England or France, the same is not true. The British and the French usually are more smug toward them and aren't as friendly.

That is just my personal observation.
Is there anything more annoying than an American tourist???Cima Coppi
Jul 25, 2001 7:40 AM
In some ways I don't blame the Europeans for the way they treat american tourists. Americans are loud, obnoxious, want all the attention on them, and won't even try to speak the native language of the country they are visiting. The tourists deserve the treatment they get, but LA and the other american cyclists past and present certainly do not.

CC
Yes. A German tourist in Eastern Europe. <eom>Old Guy
Jul 25, 2001 8:09 AM
The French hate everyoneGuillermo
Jul 25, 2001 8:40 AM
Okay, so yes the French are looking for reasons to hate Armstrong... if Armstrong were French, we would probably try to find something wrong with him too. The French seem to be ignoring that LA is not the "Ugly American" that he used to be. LA was humbled by his illness, but this is not considered by the French.

Moreover, the French hate everyone equally. The English, Americans, the Spanish... they're equal-opportunity haters. They also hate winners... and so who is the best person in the Tour to hate?
Go ahead, keep talking out your ass.....XJT
Jul 25, 2001 9:13 AM
'cuase the sh!t is starting to pile on pretty high.

I've worked in three U.S. National Parks and 4 restaurants that are frequented with French, German, and Brittish tourists. The Germans and Brits are generally VERY friendly. The French are often quite rude and several were very offended (and a couple even caused a scene) when they discovered no one on the park staff spoke french.

For the record, I speak German and Spanish and English.

That said, I hold no animosity toward the French, English, or anyone else for that matter. I don't judge people based on the "percieved" actions of others or their governments.

F*CK YOU.
Perhaps working for the gov't has clouded your judgement!!Cima Coppi
Jul 25, 2001 10:21 AM
Surely you have seen your fair share of moronic tourists in the national parks. Its a mecca for them. To think we're wasting our precious natural protected lands so bungling idiots in motorhomes, SUV's and Minivan's can pollute them into submission.

CLOSE THE DAMN NATIONAL PARKS TO MOTOR TRAFFIC, and save our wilderness's

Alas, I digress!!
Closing national parks to motorized trafficfattirewilly
Jul 25, 2001 1:35 PM
Cima, your plan is flawed because bicycles are unfortunatly in the same catagory as cars/motorbikes when it comes to Wilderness classifications. Some FU*&ing moron many years ago wrote the Wilderness laws to exclude "mechanized" modes of transportation. Nobody probably dreamed of riding a bike up and down a narrow dirt path 50 some years ago. It irks me that horses with borium spiked shoes can access wilderness areas and crap all over the place just because they were there first.

Anyway, just be careful what you wish for. SUPPORT IMBA!!!
Somebody forget their medication this morning? <nm>Old Guy
Jul 25, 2001 11:17 AM
My!Guillermo
Jul 25, 2001 12:56 PM
Now, isn't that a PLEASANT way to express yourself, XJT. Thanks for sharing! ;)

By the way, you're not French are you?
Yes...perhaps a European tourist ?James1
Jul 25, 2001 9:28 AM
I must say that I definitely take offense at your broad generalization of Americans. I've traveled in Europe a great deal, and lived there for 3 years. You said:

"Americans are loud, obnoxious, want all the attention on them, and won't even try to speak the native language of the country they are visiting"

Judging by the way you stated your point, you believe that all Americans are this way. As with all stereotypes, this one too is quite flawed when you look at it objectively. There is also the issue of cultural perception. Have you spent a lot of time living in other cultures/countries? It can be difficult to understand (and who are you to judge anyone anyway?) a different cultures behaviour on the surface, without having experienced what it means to live there.

While I would agree that there are a number of Americans who might behave like you say, there are two sides to every coin. I could just as easily make the exact same generalization about French tourists or Italian tourists or (insert country here) tourists. However, I don't do that because I know that there may be cultural reasons for that behaviour that I do not understand and it's really not my place to judge them anyway.

my two cents.
Maybe it was just youmr_spin
Jul 25, 2001 10:07 AM
I lived in Paris for a year, and found the French no more rude than any other nationality. Believe me, how rude people are to you has a whole lot to do with how you treat them. I've been all over Europe, and I don't recall any situations where I encountered rudeness just because I was American.

As for Britain, I don't know what you are talking about. They love Americans from my experience. Or maybe they just don't care to make the distinction. I was in London on the 4th of July, in front of Buckingham Palace for the changing of the guard. A band came marching by playing the "Stars and Stripes Forever." I'm not sure how many people recognized the significance of that song on that particular day. I'm not Mr. patriotic, but that was a great memory for me. God Bless the Queen!
Maybe it was just youmr_spin
Jul 25, 2001 10:43 AM
I lived in Paris for a year, and found the French no more rude than any other nationality. Believe me, how rude people are to you has a whole lot to do with how you treat them. I've been all over Europe, and I don't recall any situations where I encountered rudeness just because I was American.

As for Britain, I don't know what you are talking about. They love Americans from my experience. Or maybe they just don't care to make the distinction. I was in London on the 4th of July, in front of Buckingham Palace for the changing of the guard. A band came marching by playing the "Stars and Stripes Forever." I'm not sure how many people recognized the significance of that song on that particular day. I'm not Mr. patriotic, but that was a great memory for me. God Bless the Queen!
Right you arenutmegger
Jul 25, 2001 5:46 PM
I agree with you 100% and everything else you have said or thought in your life.
AHHHH, the power of the POST!!! (NM)Cima Coppi
Jul 25, 2001 7:35 PM
People not as negative as the pressMichaelY.
Jul 25, 2001 8:36 AM
I have a few friends in France who have told me that he is looked upon as a great champion there. I think the opinion of him has gone up over the past couple of years. If you were to go to a restaurant or cafe, people would talk about it very differently than what you see in the press.
Thank you.1EyedJack
Jul 26, 2001 6:41 AM
Finally, somebody's talking some sense. Everybody's going on and on about how much the French hate Lance Armstrong, and everybody else, but nobody's citing any evidence. Haven't Phil Liggett and Paul Sherwen been talking about how the French newspapers have, in general, responded positively to Lance's performance this year?

Talk about being influenced by the press. Is it this single article by one journalist - one who is careless and writes like a two-year old - that is causing everyone on this board to agree with him? A bit like a self-fulfilling prophecy? I'm just curious.
If Lance could ride like Jerry Lewis...MeDotOrg
Jul 26, 2001 7:20 AM
...kidding...

The thing that makes Armstrong a champion (IMO) is his incredible focus. He does not play nice. He IS a 'tough guy'. That makes him not very likeable at times. But it is his strength as a rider.

If you want a 'nice guy' to win, give a Jersey for "Mister Congeniality".