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It's Over, What will Ullrich do now?(17 posts)

It's Over, What will Ullrich do now?BigDaddySmooth
Jul 22, 2001 8:41 AM
From the start, I am a true Ullrich fan and a detractor of Armstrong. I never cared for Armstrong since his days w/Motorola. That said, I must state that Armstrong holds the advantage, obviously. He is a different and much improved rider due to weight loss, technique change and a fabulous coach, plus his genetic predisposition. Ullrich, IMHO, is the equal to Armstrong, talent-wise, and this tour will cause him to do one of 3 things: 1) remain the same and come in 2nd again next year, 2) give up or 3) change his technique and drop 10#. It would be real interesting to see what a sub 155 pound Ullrich could do. Despite his best condition, he is still carrying 10# more mass up the mountains than Armstrong is and on flat ground the extra weight/power does not offset what he loses going uphill. What do you think he'll do for next year?
Change is riskMeDotOrg
Jul 22, 2001 8:59 AM
If Armstrong is #1, Ullrich is clearly #2. Can Ullrich's physiology bring him the same success or greater in another configuration? Does he risk the success he has had by remaking himself into another kind of cyclist who may or may not catch Armstrong?

Tough choices for Jan. Remember, Lance didn't have any choice in remaking himself. Chemotherapy dictated that he do so. If Lance were the #2 cyclist in the world, would he have risked it all to remake himself if he didn't have to?
Eat another Polish dog and think about intell it too late...Canidraftyou
Jul 22, 2001 9:22 AM
Naw, I dogged Jan in first few stages. Saying he has less desire, passion, heart you know...But I have come around. For a man who is fighting for second, or holding on in hopes he can pull it off, he is fighting like a Champ. I did post Most Talent/Not a Champion. I have learned to like him for the fight that he has. Golf clap from me, thats alot coming from me, because I dont give hand me outs. You have to earn it with me. He has, ALITTLE!

If he lose some more weight who knows. We are talking about today. Not next year, or the year after. Thats being a cop-out. Ill spare you all, no quotes today.

Peace out,
re: It's Over, What will Ullrich do now?jschrotz
Jul 22, 2001 9:23 AM
Jan's former mentor, Bjarne Riis, did lose weight in order to take a serious shot at winning the Tour. Look at photos/video of him from '94 and '95 compared to '96 when he won it. He was much much thinner in '96 than in previous years. During yesterday's stage, Paul Sherwen was commenting on how Jan and Lance seemed to be equal in terms of pure power, but that Lance was 8 kilograms lighter than Ullrich and that was the main advantage that Armstrong has in the mountains. For those that don't have a convesion chart handy, 8 kilos is roughly 17.5 pounds.
re: It's Over, What will Ullrich do now?rodemiles
Jul 22, 2001 9:37 AM
Ullrich himself commented earlier this season that he might have peaked too early in his career. Winning the tour at age 23 is an awesome accomplishment, but the old way of thought is that it's much too early in a rider's career to put that strain on it. The old way was to break in gradually, planning on competing for the podium at age 25 or so. Lance was pulled from his first 2 tours when the mountains hit. Lemond wasn't allowed to compete until his body had matured to allow it.

I'm very grateful for Jan Ullrich and am tired of people bashing him. If it weren't for him this would be a very boring tour. He's ridden with nothing but class and doesn't need to make any excuses; I would speculate he would have won over half the tours in history at his level of fitness. I always wondered what Miguel Indurain could have done if anyone had been capable of pushing him. Lance Armstrong is having the greatest tour I've ever seen a rider have and I don't think anyone in history (perhaps Eddy Merckx) could have topped him. Let's be happy to see history taking place.
Even if he lost weight...James1
Jul 22, 2001 2:18 PM
...he could lose power. Just because he can put out X watts of power at his current weight, that doesn't mean he will be able to put out the same power at a lower weight. It might make him weaker.

Who knows?
Lose of body fat dont spell less watts...Canidraftyou
Jul 22, 2001 3:59 PM
If he lost weight it would make him faster, he would have more endurance for sure, even if endurance dont appear to be the issue, it is, becasue he could ride harder for longer, that might be the difference, maybe, maybe not. Its worth giving it a try. His body fat is not less than 10% he could loose another 3%. My guess and Im sure that im close, he is around 12%. That is too much for an Elite Cyclist. My thoughts on the matter.

Peace out,
muscle weighs more than fat...Lou M
Jul 22, 2001 4:56 PM
these guys don't have much fat as it is... LA is an exception, I am sure that going through all the chemo and not being able to excercise for months probably made him lose some of his old muscle. look at his old pictures.

man, I hope you don't talk the same way you write.
Yeah right! 12% body fat?Purple Frog
Jul 22, 2001 5:47 PM
That guy is absolutely emaciated. Its just that his build is so big. I don't really think he could lose more weight than he did for this year's tour, unless he lost some muscle mass. I don't really know what he can do? He absolutely destroys all the best climbers in the world except for lance. Give the guy some credit. 12%!. I'd guess more like 5%.
Jan at 12% body fat?!- Not even close!peloton
Jul 22, 2001 8:12 PM
Jan's body fat percentage is more like five or six percent. My body fat is more like 12%, and Jan is a lot more slender than I.

Anyone who states that Jan needs to lose weight really hasn't been watching the Tour. He is fit, and no one in the race can come close to matching the pace he sets in the mountains except for Lance. If Lance weren't around we would all be talking about how Ullrich destroyed the peloton, and how strong he is.

A great champion can only be formed by facing great competition. Jan is pretty formidable.
Lose of body fat dont spell less watts...Spox
Jul 23, 2001 3:03 AM
I think JU's f-% is around 5-6 (my fat was 6,4% about week ago; measured in thd test) It's not a question of fat. They are a two totally different style riders. JU does not have ability to make radical chances of tempo in that 'speed of Lance'.

Everyone has upper limits. It's easy to play cat and mouse when other is weaker. I say it's totally different situation when Lance starts to take a full worldcup program (if he does). It's different (would it be horrible, when LA focus only for a one competition in a year and if he lose it...)
Ullrich is not the shiniest spoke on the wheel...Tom C
Jul 22, 2001 8:33 PM
He thought tactically that at 17.5 lbs heavier, he was going to burn off Armstrong and only really served as a pacing domestique, not once but in no less than l'alpe d'huez,as well as the first and second stages of the Pyrenees. Armstrong, as defending champion, was never really put in the position of having to attack. Ullrich lead, Armstrong followed.When things got truly steep i.e. the foot of l'alpe d'huez, Armstrong accelerated, Ullrich having burned himself out could not follow. Same situation in the first Pyreneen stage ca-ching! put 20 plus more seconds in the till. Part of Michael Jordans talent was in his mind and until Ullrich or at least his director sportif gets one he is not Armstrongs equal.
re: Ullrich is not the shiniest spoke on the wheel...jschrotz
Jul 23, 2001 10:57 AM
Riiighhht. He figured that carrying more weight up the mountains was going to work to his advantage. It sounds as if you could use a bit of polishing up as well if you truly believe that. The main differencebetween the two, other than the weight, is Armstrong's efficiency at high cadences. His spinning up the climbs saves his legs for the explosive attacks that he made on the final climbs up L'Alpe d'Huez and Pla d'Adet. Ullrich's big-gear grinding, OTOH, takes more out of his legs, and by the time he gets to the last climb of the day, he doesn't have the snap left to match Armstrong's accelerations.
re: Ullrich is not the shiniest spoke on the wheel...Tom C
Jul 23, 2001 5:53 PM
You take me too literally.I was being facetious. Knowing his weight disadvantage Ullrich's tactics as you seem to agree on main differences is nothing short of ridiculous. Perhaps Ligget needs some polishing along with myself, afterall he characterized Ullrich as a club rider compared to Armstrong.
re: Ullrich is not the shiniest spoke on the wheel...jschrotz
Jul 23, 2001 6:29 PM
Good to know you were joking. I think Telekom's tactic on the stage to L'Alpe d'Huez was based on the idea that Armstrong was actually hurting on the first couple of climbs. They undoubtedly fell for his ruse, and paid for it dearly. It's easy for us to sit on the couch and say "oh, it was so obvious he was bluffing. . . ". But if you're in Telekom's shoes, and you see your biggest rival suffering, the temptation has got to be huge to try to put the clamp down on him, especially before the big climbs to allow for maximum time gains. You know what they say about hindsight though.
re: Ullrich is not the shiniest spoke on the wheel...Tom C
Jul 23, 2001 6:46 PM
The problem with this is L'alpe D'huez was not a singular example.It was a singular example of Armstrongs bluffing but Telekoms ongoing tactic after L'alpe was continually to try and burn off Armstrong by setting pace and expecting him to blow up. This was repeated in the first 2 Pyreneen stages, in the first Armstrong sped away for 20 plus seconds on Ullrich and in the second Pyreneen stage he sped away for the stage win, and the yellow jersey.But you know what they say, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Three times, well,you fill in the blank, but like I said not the shiniest....
re: Ullrich is not the shiniest spoke on the wheel...jschrotz
Jul 24, 2001 2:42 PM
I don't think that after the stage to L'Alpe that they were necessarily trying to burn Armstrong out the back. I think that they realized that wasn't much of a possibility. Instead, I think they were trying to get rid of the guys who took out that big chunk of time just before hitting the mountains. Force them to their limits on the first couple of climbs, and then really blow them away on the final ascent. If they hadn't done that, and given those guys an easy ride over the first few passes, they wouldn't have gained as much time on them on the last climb of the day. They were probably also trying to burn up USPS's climbers so that they might not be of much help to LA when crunch time came. After the MTT, I think Telekom had it figured that they weren't going to get rid of Armstrong on any of the earlier climbs.