|You dorks missed the point...||Old Guy|
Jul 21, 2001 8:52 PM
|Waiting was not classy. It was not noble. You nimrods can't POSSIBLY be paying attention.
He waited BECAUSE if he rode into Paris N minutes in front of Ullrich, EVERYBODY except LA fans would be saying, "Yeah, but if Ullrich wouldn't have crashed, he could have won. That crash cost him at least N minutes."
Lance can now win the Tour with the pleasure of knowing that the sniping euro-media and doubters will have to return to the garbage bins to figure out why he kicked everybody's ass again.
Oh, one other thing while I'm unloading on you guys. Just because Lance SAYS Ullrich is more talented doesn't mean he THINKS that. Okay? He's SAYING that to the media. There's a REASON for that. I'm not going to say anymore about it or use anymore capital letters; I'll let you think about it...
|re: You dorks missed the point...||CyclingWolf|
Jul 21, 2001 9:09 PM
|If you read my post several strings below I got it! However you described it better than I...|
|Didn't I say that?? (nm)||Mike K|
Jul 21, 2001 9:22 PM
|careful or you too my friend will be accused of "jingoism" by our less than noble comrades...|
|Good points but,||XJT|
Jul 21, 2001 9:23 PM
|You're just as stupid as everyone you criticize. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT ARMSTRONG OR ULLRICH ARE THINKING. YOU DON'T KNOW HOW GENETICALLY PRESISPOSED TO CYCLING "TALENT" EITHER ONE OF THEM ARE.
You just don't know.
The Euro media is full of cry babies....I agree Lance HAD to wait, and I'm sure the media repurcussions for attacking crossed his mind. But who the hell are you to say the move wasn't noble? Or to assume his intentions are solely directed at anything? You don't know!
Winning is of paramount importance but that doesn't mean that Lance doesn't have enough respect for Ullrich to wait and give him a chance.
I don't think Lance really gives a sh!t what the media says about him from here on in. He's already won two straight tours. He's crushed and broken the top riders in the world.
Armstrong has nothing to prove to you or anyone else. Unless you've been hiding under a rock the past 20 years, you should know by now it doesn't matter what ANYONE does. There's always going to be some silly media shark chicken-sh!t that wants to put a negative spin on peoples accomplishments.
I agree with the idea that Lance uses "them". But your tone that he only waited to make himself look favorable is chicken-sh!t. It contradicts the idea that he's using them as a tool for personal gain and his strategy to beat Ullrich and Team Telekom, It also makes you look stupid for giving the media that much credit and assume that "they" are paramount to Lances mind-set.
Your full of sh!t buddy.
|And you say we've been under living under a rock......hmmmmmm||Mike K|
Jul 21, 2001 9:37 PM
|I like that XJT, speak your mind, thats what this is all about.||Canidraftyou|
Jul 21, 2001 10:12 PM
|Again, like one of my past post. ITS ALL SPECULATION!!! All we can do is be fans of the sport and try to think like them, dress like them and try like hell to be fast like them, we all do, or we would be wearing levis on our road bikes. Nothing personal Old Guy, but he has a point.
|I like it!!! Good job XJT.||Canidraftyou|
Jul 21, 2001 10:19 PM
|Nothing personal Old Guy, but all we can do is SPECULATE, thats what fans do. "WITH OUT US, THERE IS NO SPORT." If we all agreed with the commentators, we would have weak minds, unable to think for ourselves. We have every right to think out loud. You got me on your side XJT.
|Good one XJT!||NorCalMike|
Jul 21, 2001 10:41 PM
|Ha ha ha ha ha ha=)|
|what about another option, eh?||quinroo|
Jul 22, 2001 4:30 AM
|ok, i've been reading this thread and the other one, and the only reasons given for lance waiting are: "he is a class act" and "he doesn't want the bad publicity". what about the fact that ullrich is pretty much the only one out there who can climb with him, and he didn't want to climb the rest of the stage alone? it would be harder for him to climb it alone. and while he eventually dropped ullrich, he was able to use him to help pull him along. i agree that lance is a great guy (and i cried when he won the stage), but i think there's more race strategy than image concerns involved here.|
|what about another option, eh?||chrisbaby|
Jul 22, 2001 4:42 AM
|I agree with you, eh. They had two cols left to climb. Armstrong could've gone on alone, but he might have faded and then eventually been beaten. Instead, he waited for Ullrich, managed to let two teammates catch up and, thus, saved himself for the finish. Classy or not, it is smart bike racing.|
|re: You dorks missed the point...||Another old guy|
Jul 22, 2001 7:49 AM
|Adding Fuel to the fire: Armstrong NEEDED Ullrich to help pace him over the last climbs of the day. Waiting for Ullrich kept Ullrich right where he wanted him.|
|re: You sir dork...||jrm|
Jul 22, 2001 8:00 AM
|he waited because he knew that ullrich would work with him for the rest of that stage. He had a pyschological advantage over him from the last stage. he knew ullrich would play, and he was right. Thats, he played until lance dropped him.|
Jul 22, 2001 9:23 AM
|The reason Lance waited is simple: it's an unwritten rule in the peloton that you don't attack an adversary when he's incurred a problem such as a flat tire or crash. The peloton is largely self-policing: if you get the reputation as someone who takes advantage of others when their down, the peloton will "flick" you at every oppurtunity to discipline you. If you have any doubt about this, read Lance's book. He talks about how the peloton can absolutely make your life miserable if they decide you need your comeuppance.
In the 1990 tour Claudio Chiapucci attacked Greg Lemond when Lemond flatted. Lemond changed bikes, then the rear wheel pulled over. He had to take his original bike with a new wheel and then launch a tremendous chase. He completely left his two teammates who had waited to help him back up. Once he finally made contact with the peloton, he rode up to Chiapucci and berated him verbally. From that point on, no one would work with Chiapucci. All his attacks were doomed because the peloton would work "en masse" to chase him down. This went on for several years.
Lance waiting for Jan had nothing to do with needing his help. He's already demonstrated he can do it on his own. It was simply peloton etiquette.
And I'm amused how everyone can suppose to know what Lance was looking at (supposedly the mano a mano stare) on Alpe D'huez. How does know exactly what Lance was looking at when he looked back? I couldn't see his eyes for the sunglasses. Maybe someone with xray vision can, but I can't. My thought is that he was looking back to see Ullrich's position before he launched his attack, like anyone else would have done. I think everyone is seeing way too much in that look.
|One more (belated) opinion||pfw2|
Jul 22, 2001 3:05 PM
|Having just watched the pathetic CBS show (still trying to get the sugary taste out of my mouth), they did at least have quotes from Lance at the end of that stage. He seemed genuinely worried that Jan might have been seriously injured, and even though he would've quickly been informed otherwise via radio, I think the fact that Casartelli died on these same roads in '95 must've shook him up a little. His stomach must've done a couple of flips.
It's great to see Jan giving everything he has. I think the handshake today was because LA didn't try to attack in the last few Kms, as there was no need, and didn't try to cross the line in front of him. Obviously they're both in a different class than Elephantino.
Enjoy the rest of the race you OLN watching sods. :(
Jul 22, 2001 3:09 PM
|Sorry, just remembered a Monty Python Quote:
"He said he had to nail my head to the floor as I had transgressed the unwritten law.",
" which one?"
"He didn't say"