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Team TT question(9 posts)

Team TT questionPaulCL
Jul 12, 2001 11:31 AM
Why did Telekom "leave" Zabel, but USPS wait for Heras and Vanwhatever? If they left them behind are they then out of the tour??
Let me answer this one for SpyderRyder...jba
Jul 12, 2001 12:18 PM
"You are a NEWBIE! Your competitive cycling inexperience is grossly in evidence! I suggest that you get a few tours under your belt before even asking such an asinine question. Psss-shawww! If you knew anything about this you'd know that Julich came in 3rd in 1998, Pantani was second, and that Ullrich puts on socks and shoes one foot at a time leaving the other foot completely vulnerable in the meantime."

(Hey, PaulCL... I'm completely joking with you. Just giving Spyder Ryder a little ribbing over his other condescending replies to comments and question put forth by others. Enjoy watching the Tour!)
You got me!PaulCL
Jul 12, 2001 1:23 PM
JBA...whoa was I getting P.O.ed as I read your post..."newbie, inexperience, Ulrich's socks..." then I got a good laugh because I read SpyderRyders post too.

Thanks for the laugh.

P.S. Since I've been riding seriously for a dozen years, raced for a few years, gonna race again when my kids are older, burned through several bikes, do 150+ miles/week, spent a few mortgage payments on my current steed, I doubt I qualify as a newbie. Maybe a "wannabie"????

I have since read the rules of the Team TT...something about disqualification of an individual rider if they come in 25% slower than their team...I think. Other than team unity, IMHO, it made no sense to wait for Hera and VanVelde. Lance must REALLY feel strong to voluntarilly give up a full minute on the yellow jersey. A mistake or incredible confidence??????
Strategy......Len J
Jul 12, 2001 12:31 PM
As long as they finish within a certain time behind the team they can still ride, so don't think that was the reason (especially in the last 18K). In a TTT the more (Strong) riders you have the faster the team can go (at least in theory). It's a split second decision as to wether you will lose more time by waiting than you will lose by having fewer rider's. I think in this case Zabel dropped because he was spent, whereas the two Posties were still riding strong when they fell. The team made a tactical decision to wait. This is one of the things that makes the TTT so interesting.
re: Team TT questionAndrew
Jul 12, 2001 12:36 PM
I am relatively new to this stuff, but I have a couple of ideas. I think the decision to leave a rider or wait for them has to do with the ultimate goal of the team. Haras is going to be useful to Lance in the mountains so they don't want to lose him. It also is a big boost to the riders who crashed to see that Lance and the rest of the team care enough about them to wait up and finish as a team. It will provide them with a little more incentive to work hard for Lance in the remaining stages. Telecom probably left Zabel because he is primarily a sprinter and might not be as useful to the team once they reach the mountains. Plus they probably knew that USPS is a great time trile team and Jan can't afford to wait up for slower riders and risk losing valuable time to Lance. If USPS hadn't had a crash or hadn't waited up for Haras and CVV then he would cetainly have gained a ton of time on Jan. I am sure that Telecom also heard that USPS had slowed to wait for their riders and had hoped to beat them in the TTT.

I am not sure about the other question. I think I read that only 5 riders have to finish the time trial. I don't know if riders who fall off are thrown out or just take a hit to their overall time. I am sure that riders who are way off the time might be tossed or drop out, but I don't know. I am curious too. I might have to do a little research to find out a little more.

As I said I am a newbie too, so I might be completely wrong, but I have a feeling the teams decision is based on the ultimate goal for the tour and not just the days stage.

more infoAndrew
Jul 12, 2001 12:56 PM
I just checked out the official Tour site " and copied the TTT rules.

"A r t i c l e 2 4 - TEAM time trial stages
In team time trial stages, riders start at 5' intervals in the reverse order of the general team classification following stage # 4.
The team classification of the stage is based on the time recorded by the rider who finishes in 5th position (with a precision of 1/100 of a second). An identical time is granted to all the team members who record this time or a lower time.
For the individual general classification, the times are recorded as follows:
- the time of the 5th rider in each team for riders who qualify for this as stipulated above;
- the actual times of laggards with a maximum limit of 7' relative to the first team's "scratch" time.
The lag of teams that finish more than 7' after the first team (the "scratch" time) is limited to 7' in the individual general classification. However, riders who finish later than the time limits set by the regulations (coefficient 6) are eliminated."

So I guess the first team to finish sets the scratch time. The fifth rider to cross the line sets the time for the first five riders on the team and the slower members recieve their actual time for the ride. If any rider finishes more than 7 minutes behind the Scratch time set by the first team then they are out of the tour. I think that is how it is interpreted. Please correct me if I am wrong. Haras and CVV would have most likely remained in the tour even if they had been dropped, so I assume that they were trying to preserve the team bond more than anything.

re: Team TT questiondough
Jul 12, 2001 2:31 PM

I think you hit the nail on the head with: "a big boost to the riders who crashed to see that Lance and the rest of the team care enough about them to wait up and finish as a team. It will provide them with a little more incentive to work hard for Lance in the remaining stages"

I think that's precisely what Lance was thinking when he took charge of the situation today. He showed his team that he is a leader who cares about them and although he wants to win this race, he needs them to do it. He scored big points with his team today.
whose call was it anyway?Warren128
Jul 13, 2001 3:20 PM
Was it Bruyneel's or Lance's to wait for the 2 fallen riders? Who has the final say? Just curious.

whose call was it anyway?dough
Jul 13, 2001 7:28 PM
It's been reported that the decision was part of the race strategy that was devised before the TTT even began. They had a plan in place that dictated who would be left and who would be waited upon at various points along the course. My guess is that it was a Lance and Bruyneel mutual decision.