|Gios Torino - information needed||whileyrider|
Jul 26, 2003 9:42 AM
I've lurked here a bit and this is my first post. I'm looking for some information on a Gios "Professional" I bought last summer for $600 Canuckistani dollars (ballpark $400 US).
I was checking out Sheldon Brown's website last summer and saw this:
"While many of these blue classics with the coin-like plugs in the forkcrown all look the same, beware. Some are exquisite, some are only fairly nice. What complicates the story is that at least with later examples there were issues as to what were legitimate examples. The tale going around is that a U.S importer started labeling frames procured from another Italian builder with the Gios label (they felt they had legal right to the name in the U.S). Some argue that some of the "fake" frames were actually superior to the real ones. No idea how to tell what is what. I think, though, that most of the early models with the coin fork plug were the legitimate ones. Then again, there supposedly were some Mexican built counterfeits of the early model that possibly can be distinguished by the lack of certain bottom bracket features. Despite the chaos, examples with awesome workmanship of the funky coin-in-the-crown era should be worth with N.R. parts around $1000- $1,100. "
I emailed Sheldon some pix and asked him what he thought about my bike's origin and when it was built. He figured it to be a 1983 Italian made. The odd thing about this bike is that it's spec'd entirely with Mavic (aside from the Shimmy front derailleur and brake levers) - hubs, rear der, cranks, BB, headset, etc. It doesn't have the coins in the fork crowns, which to me implies authenticity.
So my question - which may seem stupid to some of you who are far more versed in retro classic roadies than I - is this: might this be a Mexican model? I know the two prior owners, the first guy owns a bike shop in Jasper and I imagine he would have gone for the real deal and might have been hard to fool with a fake. If this bike is Italian made and le veritas, what value do the Mavic parts add to the bike overall?
I'm not interested in selling this baby, as it is my one and only road bike (I'm primarily a mountain biker, sorry ;) ) and I love how it rides. I'm just curious as to whether or not I'm riding a real classic or some knock-off.
|Seat tube detail||whileyrider|
Jul 26, 2003 9:44 AM
|Here's the seattube. I swap my 27.2 mountain post and seat back and forth between this bike and my dirt bike. Sacrilege, I know.|
Jul 26, 2003 9:46 AM
Jul 26, 2003 9:47 AM
Jul 26, 2003 9:49 AM
|One more white Gios!||Qubeley|
Jul 26, 2003 4:06 PM
I just finished rebuild the very same model last month. I saw the same passage from Sheldon Brown, and was curious about authenticity of the bike when I first got it. I am glad to tell you that the bike is real deal, and in fact Dietrich Thurau won Milan San Remo in 1983(?) on the same model.
I believe starting with this model, Gios stopped putting corns in the forks. But all the lugged sections should have "GIOS" engraved in them.
I have checked Gios's website(www.gios.it), and under history section I was able to find Professional model, and it was from early 80s.
Jul 26, 2003 4:14 PM
|Ride with proud!|
|Modernize and destroy??||whileyrider|
Jul 27, 2003 11:05 PM
|Time has come to put on some new cables and housing and tear apart and greasify the brakes. What I'm wondering is whether I should just wait until this winter and do a total makeover.
Things I would like to do:
STI/Ergo levers and shifters, 7 spd (I think the spacing will permit 7 spd but nothing past this), and I would like to get a wider and more ergonomic bar. While I'm doing this, I'd like to take a Dremmel to the frame and sand off the rust where the paint has flaked and restore it to a complete white.
a) If I go STI/Ergo, do I need any cable stops brazed on?
b) can I go 8 spd and still use the same hub? I refuse to get rid of these hubs since they're so bomber (and beautiful), so I'd like to do the best I can with what I've got. If that means staying at 6 speed w/ downtube friction shifters then so be it. But if I can go to 7spd index integrated with the brake lever I'd like to. Shifting at the downtube is a bit of a drag, but it's not that bad.
c) do I destroy the "classic" nature of this bike by doing this? ie. changing the shifting etc. I've already marred its Italian beauty by putting my MTB post and seat as well as my ATAC pedals on it, so I guess the point is already moot... but these are just peripheral modifications. Shifting gets more to the heart of the matter.
I guess I don't really care about appearances too much (I wear my Camelbak like a badge of honour and love passing the fully uniformed smooth leggers on the climbs around here with my mountain shoes and joisey), but I'd like to retain the fundamental character of this bike if possible.
Someday I'll get a modern and schwinky road speedster and at that time I'll restore this baby to its original form (or at least, original as possible). But until then, this is my workhorse. In essence, I want it to be not only a classic but a classic with ultimate utility.
Thanks for any info you can offer. Don't be shy!
|Modernize and destroy??||Walter|
Jul 28, 2003 9:34 AM
|A) No. STI kit should have stops that will thread into the DT shifter bosses.
B) I'm not a Shimano expert but I think you'd need a new hub and wheel rebuild. If it has 6 now you should be able to fit an Ultra7 (I'm assuming this is a freewheel hub as I don't recall early Shimano with 6 speed cassettes). 8 speed is defintely a cassette/freehub application.
Where are you going to find the 7 speed STI? It's been a long time since it was current and Shimano is not known for supporting non-current components.
C) Many here would argue "Yes." Pedals are pretty much rider choice and many, though not all, switch to some form of clipless. As you state your mods are more significant. Frankly, I'd either leave it alone and enjoy it as is or if I love the ride quality and can't see buying a new frameset in the foreseeable future I'd take the "in for a penny, in for a pound' approach. Get the dropouts reset to a 130mm and go to a current 9 speed set up (Campy 10 would be even better IMO :-) ). Trying to locate and retrofit obsolete parts is more headache than the end result is worth IMO. If you're going to take away the bike's "vintageness" do it right.
Sheldon Brown at Harris Cyclery specializes in things like you want to do. Drop him a line.
|Modernize and destroy??||tarwheel|
Jul 29, 2003 11:46 AM
|Personally, I don't think you hurt anything by modernizing your Gios. After all, you're the one riding it. I had an old Bianchi (since sold) that I updated with a 9-speed Ultegra group from another frame that didn't fit. I never regretted making the change, and was able to offset my expenses by selling the old Campy parts to someone who really appreciated the old stuff. Old Gios Torinos are pretty common based on the numbers I see for sale on eBay, so I don't think it would be a sacrilege to modernize yours. If your frame was a particularly rare or pristine model, I might feel otherwise. (Eg, someone had an anniversary edition Gios for sale in the past year with full Campy Record group and lots of nice details. It would be terrible to upgrade something like that.) |
If you decide to "upgrade" your Gios, I would spend some money on a new paint job. You can buy replacement decals from www.excelsports.com, the sole US importer of Gios. I would also have the rear triangle spread to accommodate a 9-speed group. Any decent bike shop can do this, and it poses no problems with a steel frame.
|If you can locate...||Lone Gunman|
Jul 29, 2003 3:44 PM
|RSX 7 speed STI shifters work great, Sora STI is also 7 speed and can be had for $100 or so.|| |