RoadBikeReview.com's Forum Archives - Retro - Classic Bikes
This is rare, huh?(19 posts)
|This is rare, huh?||the bull|
Jun 25, 2003 5:12 PM
Would kinda take the fun out of restoring one!
|Yeah ...||Humma Hah|
Jun 26, 2003 6:11 AM
|... a brand-new 72? Pretty extrordiary.
Now, you gotta ask, how come it is still brand-new? Why didn't it sell in '72?
You also gotta ask, if somebody wanted a brand-new bike, would they want a '72 that costs $2530? The only bike built in the second half of the 20th century that commands that price is a good-condition, all-original Schwinn Black Phantom.
Will there be people who would love to own that bike? Let's see, how many people are there in this forum alone? SURE! But it is really hard to judge the demand for a brand-new '72: none of us expect to ever see one, and it is so rare we have no experience knowing what to expect with this sale.
I'd be surprised if his reserve is met.
|Reserve is right||boneman|
Jun 26, 2003 1:47 PM
|I'm surprised by Humma Hah's comment as he's pretty knowledgable. Milano Masi of that period is Faliero construction. A friend had one built, similar color, made to measure, in 1969 when he was over there on vaction. He had pictures of the workshop and the original measurement build sheet. He still has the bike and Masi's from that time on have been an obsession for me as Merckx rode a Masi when he was Faema and they said van Looy did as well.
After moving to Europe, I went to the Vigorelli Velodrome in Milano just to visit the shop and soak up the history. His son, Alberto, has run the business for some years but the workshop is very traditional, at least a few years ago.
It's a piece of history, a bit like Confente's. If it were in my size, I'd buy it today.
|What I dont understand about this bike.||the bull|
Jun 26, 2003 6:35 PM
|The top tube is 59 and the stem is 130.
This is very long(longer than what I ride).
The handlebars are only like 40cm!
This way smaller than I would ride.
|typical for the time.||desmo|
Jun 26, 2003 9:15 PM
|narrow bars were common back then. 40 was actually for a big rider. 42's and 44's were huge. try to find some old logo 44 Cinelli 64's. impossible. narrow bars are kind of cool though and more "areo". I have 39's on my 70's Vega even though I ride 46's on my modern race bike. they steer very quick, but those old steel frames with longer wheelbases still handle that fine.|
Jun 27, 2003 4:46 AM
|When I finally bought a 'modern' bike last year (a Zurich) I was really thrown by the feel of the 46s. Still am. My mid-80s Miyata of basically the same size and geometry has 40s.
Oddly enough, I was just last night thinking about getting some narrower handlebars for the Z. I prefer the feeling of being 'tucked in.' Sorry, Grant.
|One of the things that kept me off 70's roadbikes ...||Humma Hah|
Jun 27, 2003 7:13 AM
|... was I could never find one I could actually climb ON to. I drooled over the few Paramounts I saw, but no way could I ride a 63 cm frame, the usual size I encountered. When I finally decided I had to have one, it took a two year search to find my size.|
|Another question pops into my head!||the bull|
Jun 27, 2003 8:26 AM
|If I were to build up a bike (classic) and I ride a 57 or 58 TT length(Modern bike) should I go for the same size?
Should I try to get 40cm bars as well? How did they come up with this measurement? If bars today are taken from shoulder width.
|size is size||desmo|
Jun 27, 2003 9:10 PM
|always ride the top tube that fits you, the seat tube is "horseshoes", close is good enough. as far as bars, if you want "correct" original, then 40 may be the widest you'll be able to find. if you can live with incorrect later logos (for Cinelli's) than get the classic bend in the width you prefer to ride. my own experiance has been (no matter how good your intentions) you might as well build them up original and nice looking because in reality you will not ride them that often anyway.|
|size is size||Walter|
Jun 28, 2003 9:57 AM
|I started riding roadies a couple of years after that one would've been sitting in a LBS and I've always ridden wider bars. In fact I can't stand narrow bars. For me slightly later Cinellis in a more appropriate width satisfy my need for "period correct." Desmo is right in that the bke may not get alot of miles regardless but don't let something like bars keep the thing from getting any miles.|
Jun 27, 2003 5:55 AM
|That applies to the bike and the still climbing price. To me this is a MUCH more desireable bike than the 1962 or so PX10 that went for over $7K so if that's my measure then the bike is still undervalued. OTOH I've seen actual Confentes, albeit not NOS, fail to make reserve so we'll see.
Fortunately too tall for me as there would be a temptation to jump into the pool, not that my wife would understand.
My guess is the height is 1 reason the bike never sold. Who knows what other reasons?
|One important thing is missing with this bike ...||Humma Hah|
Jun 27, 2003 10:14 AM
|... and it is a classic shortcoming on e-bay.
Every used-car salesman worth his salt knows that you owe the customer a story to go with the car. At a minimum, something like "It was only driven on Sundays by a little old lady."
Now, as we're all wondering, WHY was this fine example of bicycle craftsmanship just squirreled away, untouched, for so many years? Obviously, there's a story here, and the story is absolutely integral to the rarity of the bike. Any buyer MUST have this story, or they're getting gyped.
I'll make one up: The bike was ordered by a LBS, and was 2 cm taller than the customer ordered. The customer refused to take it, and the LBS was stuck with their mistake. Due to the very high cost, and the fact that it was too big and expensive to sell from the floor, it tipped them over the edge into bankruptcy. The receiver, figuring all bicycles are worth $100 max, never bothered to try to sell it, just stuck it in a warehouse, where it was forgotten until recently, when the crane operator demolishing the warehouse realized his wrecking ball had just trashed a pile of old bikes. An ardent Italiophile, he rescued this one from the tangle of mangled frames, fortunately perfectly protected by a dozen trashed Crescents, Peugeots, and Motobecanes.
|It was the glint from the chromed headset that caught his eye...||KenS|
Jun 27, 2003 10:51 AM
|He didn't know anything about bikes but he had a brother-in-law who once worked in a sporting goods store, so he took the bike to the brother-in-law. The brother-in-law had worked in the kind of sporting goods store that sold mainly Coleman stoves, fishing equipment, and RV accessories. He looked at the bike and thought that it had been a pretty expensive bike but knew it was old because it didn't have shocks or big tires like the bikes at WalMart. So the brother-in-law took it to a pawn shop and sold it for $75. The pawn shop owner put it on display in his window with an asking price of $125. And then somebody from RBR walked by one day...|
|I like our story better, but here's the seller's ...||Humma Hah|
Jun 27, 2003 12:07 PM
I had put the word out in shops in the Midwest that I was looking for stuff (stuf) like this, and a shop owner friend of a shop owner who I did a lot of business with contacted me. He had a customer who owned it along with 15 Mercedes Benz's and gosh knows what else. I have been working on this deal for almost 10 months! The owner was a private collector who wishes to remain anonymous.
|Be watching at 7:10 tonight, 6/30/03 ...||Humma Hah|
Jun 30, 2003 1:10 PM
|... when the auction ends. See if the snipers run the bid up. Its holding, at present, at about $28hundredsomething, reserve not yet met, with 13 bids.
This is a fun one to watch. Like I said, its such a rare thing, prior e-bay experience does not apply.
A philosophical question: who wants it? Would the buyer ride it? If they ride it, its no longer NEW, hence, degrading why they paid a premium. But would they leave it in the wrapper? WAY to pretty, and what would be the purpose? And the fellow who is selling it put out the word far and wide that he wanted just such a find, and what's he do? Turns around and auctions it off!
I'm afraid this collector bunch is just beyond my comprehension. I can't figure out why I'd want an old bike except to RIDE the thing. As valuable as this machine is as a virgin, only by being ridden will it fulfill its purpose in life.
|And the winner IS ...||Humma Hah|
Jun 30, 2003 3:27 PM
|... For a bid of $3,827.77, BobBiker, a very skillful sniper.
Pretty active ending. One guy tried to snipe a few seconds earlier, barely exceeding the 13th bid by a few tens of bucks. 12 seconds later, BobBiker and LosGatos (familiar name ... do we know this bidder?) simultaneously bid over $3 grand. Not until sometime in this brief flurry of activity was the reserve met.
I sure hope they pack it well.
|Be watching at 7:10 tonight, 6/30/03 ...||Walter|
Jul 2, 2003 2:53 AM
|My guess HH is that the bike never sees the road or maybe just a very few miles if the buyer hangs out with other collectors. I'm pretty sure the buyer will finish assembly but then on display.
I understand your point. If I had that bike the only reason I wouldn't ride it is b/c it's too tall so I guess it would be a wall hanger. But if it fit........I'd ride it but it wouldn't be my every ride bike by any means.
$3800+ is good money but the $7200 PX10 still stands alone. I'll never understand that, I don't care how rare the Stronglight crank was on that Peugeot not even the ost devout Francophile could, with a straight face, say that a PX is worth nearly 2X that Masi.
|I'm wondering if we'll see it again ...||Humma Hah|
Jul 2, 2003 8:37 AM
|... in a few months, still in the wrapper, up for auction on e-bay again. Maybe even the same photos ... so they don't further damage the paper.
At some point, someone who actually wants the BIKE, if only for display, will actually unwrap and assemble it. We have no way of knowing, right now, if the buyer is only a speculator.
They're INSANE! If we understood them, we'd be insane, too.
|I'm wondering if we'll see it again ...||Lone Gunman|
Jul 2, 2003 4:34 PM
|If it fit me, and I owned it, I think I would remove the original tires and brake pads, buy some replacements and ride that suckkka. It's only a machine and you can't take it with you, and I doubt that anyone is going to pay you money to come to your house and look at it. I saw a guy riding a vintage 70's/80's better bike(can't remember the name) bike on a week long tour. Same type of deal, found in the basement of a shop, built it up and this was it's first ride on the road.|| |