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SpclizdAllez Re-revisted: Maker's marks on componentry?(7 posts)

SpclizdAllez Re-revisted: Maker's marks on componentry?128
Jun 4, 2002 4:56 AM
Has Wooglin done more research?

I wonder if you got any more info from Specialized on your frame? Or on these bikes of that era in general.

I was cleaning and going over the bike last night with a fine tooth flashlight and it was like chanelling the builder or something weird, I perceived a certain Japanese precision and builders pride. And then I saw his name: jj. It's got to be a makers mark (or maybe the bikeshop builder??).

Well that's my question really: are makers marks common in cycle mfg or assembly? (as they are in jewelry making) What does it mean...?

On the flat backside of each brakeset and on the inside of the f/d, after some other stamps (parts id's I suspect) is the 'jj' impression.(??)Does anyone else have some initials in there? I realize you (Wooglin) don't have the componentry but others may. I'm running the old 600 stuff

Wooglin found just a '58' on the bottom bracket. I have 'ss4355' (the ss4 is hard to make out)

I hope you enjoy the frame! and thanks for any further info. we might share on these bikes....
re: SpclizdAllez Re-revisted: Maker's marks on componentry?wooglin
Jun 4, 2002 5:18 AM
Hey 128--

I emailed Specialized about a week ago, but aside from an autoresponse haven't gotten anything back yet. I was planning to prod them today. The only info I have to add to the previous thread is from one of my mechanics. He says that the 3Rensho-built bikes have a slight slope to the fork crown (mine does) while the rest of the Allez line has a flat fork crown. What's yours look like?

As for the jj, can't help. Although it would be unusual I think for the builder to stamp the components but not the frame. I do know that new Cannondales are stamped by the torches that make them (just read that, in fact).
re: SpclizdAllez Re-revisted: Maker's marks on componentry?128
Jun 5, 2002 4:36 AM
Gee, don't know if I can process this flood of information from the retro board, said the grouch. You'd think a relatively modern, rather unremarkable bike such as Specialized's entry into high-end racing bikes would be easy to gather information about which to gather. Was it high end? Were they just frames and then built up with whatever? Did they come from the factory with a particular set up? Was jj the shop cat? What is the molecular weight of CroMo? You know, the obvious stuff.

But Nooo! Specialized has to sit on it's arse, and Spirito has to publish ancient accounts of races (cool! seriously) and that stupid non-cycling forum has to dither on with pedantic, politically-naive, new-age self-discovery and HALT! Excuse me, overcome with a bout of selfish self interest, post-modern anger, and a cheap shot.
Any way: Wooglin, checked out the fork crown and it is sloped. I believe the LBS guy said this bike is an '87, I mistakenly said '86. Again there is no 3Rensho oval but has all the same decals. Golly, I sure wish yours had it's original build up, then we could compare parts too. (allright, you know what I mean! Geesh.)As in hubs and weels n' such. I saw some 600 brake levers on that Renaissance Cycles site (thanks to Spirito) and thinking of putting those on. LBS guy said they were upgraded but I'd like to restore it to it's original mediocrity. Are you sure on the bottom of your bottom bracket is stamped only '58'? Doesn't sound like much of a serial number. I'm guessing the last two numbers as I've described mine is the bike size. Hey, maybe yours was jj's mock-up prototype!

ps: if I've offended anyone with my words, I am completely un-apologetic and invite your forgivness an dissinterest...All a part of the retro-grouch mood.

chorus: slow ride! take it easy! slow riding is so fine....
re: SpclizdAllez Re-revisted: Maker's marks on componentry?wooglin
Jun 6, 2002 10:12 AM
From Bart at Specialized. This is regarding my frame, but it kind of throws you a curve 128:

The best I can come up with is that it is very early Specialized, before we had tech manuals, that is why we have no way of knowing all the specifics. One of the best Tech Reps wrote that all we might be able to do it tell you the year of manufacture. The Serial number will indicate this. The Serial number sould look something like PK2452066, in this case it would be a 1982, the first number is the last number of the year. I am truly sorry. Thank you for your patience.

********

And from the folks at yellowjersey.org (nice batch of 3Renshos for sale there btw):

There were some red Allez built at 3Rensho to Specialized specifications. I'm pretty sure that ended somwhere around 1988 or so when specialized moved production to Taiwan. I am not a Specialized expert but like so many companies that have only an office in the States, their bikes have been built by just about every Asian factory at one time or another. I can't say for sure whether your bike was built at 3Rensho or not but it is very likely because I don't think specialized would have paid to use their sticker at another factory.
Geez, we're hurtin' for facts huh?? I'l check the phone book128
Jun 6, 2002 11:50 AM
under jj and probably get more info than these guys have. Interesting stuff though and thanks to your efforts. Will all due respect to Bart I don't think his serial # analysis in correct, rather: i'd be surprised if it were- the 2 is the year it....mmm, I just think such a system defies any logic and would not be used by a mfg of anything.
Does yours really just have a '58' or whatever it was, on the BB?
Probably a difficulat history to trace in any regard. But let's keep trying.
Anyway,. I'm heading to the LBS Sat. to swap my indoor trainer for clipless pedals and shoes! Modernity, here I come...!
What will you build yours up with?
Geez, we're hurtin' for facts huh?? I'l check the phone bookwooglin
Jun 7, 2002 5:58 AM
Yes, the 58 is the only thing stamped on the frame. Anywhere. I wrote back to Bart w/ that info, so we'll see if he comes up with anything else. With some bikes, though, its just hard to get info, particularly w/ big manufacturers. If I get no response on a board like this, then I assume nobody's got a good answer.

Took me years to get any good info on my Trek 760, then someone posted the Vintage Trek pages to the net et viola! Guess I'll just wait til someone does the same for Specialized.

Build will be the parts off the Trek. That frame's going in for paint.
Ok. We'll keep at it!Good luck with the buildup, sounds good128
Jun 7, 2002 7:04 AM
Let me know when you hear back from Bart eh?
Maybe I'll e-mail them my serial # and see if that gets anywhere. Did you just go to the Splzd site for an addy or do have some better/different e-mail for them??

Have a great ride this weekend....