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? about racing clubs(17 posts)

? about racing clubsThe Human G-Nome
Dec 16, 2003 1:57 PM
This is my first year managing our team and i've already learned a lot of lessons about what not to do, but I'd like your input in regards to anything else you might think of. Even from a team member standpoint, what did your team management do in the past that set you off, pi$$ed you off, or you found just plain wrong? And what did they do right?

- How many members on your squad? What were some of the logistical problems you found associated with larger teams (around 50 members)

- When is your team's cutoff for adding new riders? When do team kit orders normally get submitted by?

- In regards to racing, if you have too many members in the same Cat who want to race in the same race, how do you solve this dilemma diplomatically? The last thing I want is for our team to saturate any race. I was thinking about implementing a 5 person cap or something of the like.

- Any other advice you want to give is appreciated.

Why would you limit the number per race? (nm)TFerguson
Dec 16, 2003 3:16 PM
reasonThe Human G-Nome
Dec 16, 2003 3:35 PM
It seems like bad form to me to have a race with 40 participants and 12 of them are from the same team.
Not your problemasgelle
Dec 16, 2003 6:51 PM
The Human G-Nome writes, "It seems like bad form to me to have a race with 40 participants and 12 of them are from the same team."

I don't think that's your team's problem. If your team is so attractive that so many riders want to race for it, that's to your team's credit. If other teams don't like it, let them change to attract more riders. That assumes you're not getting the large numbers by buying riders, if so stop it :).

We're the only team in the area with a mostly open door policy, accepting almost anyone who wants to join, so we are by far the largest team around, We often have 25% of the field in a race, but other teams know this, and if they wanted, they could take more riders, which they don't.

Also, if you start telling riders they can't enter races, I don't think you'll have this problem long as people start leaving. Assuming this is an amateur team and riders are racing for fun, why would they stay on a team that doesn't let them race?
I think you make good pointsThe Human G-Nome
Dec 17, 2003 8:37 AM
But I also think that our area is so saturated with races that it would never really come to not letting folks race. I think the cap I suggested is artificially low though. Maybe 10 is more appropriate. This isn't a judgment I would make minus the blessings of the team members mind you. Actually, I'm making very few moves that don't include the say-so of our paid members. I planned on having a smaller team this year, but momentum really carried us over the top. So now we're accepting riders with decent race resumes only, while before we were similar to your club.
Negative tacticsNightengale
Dec 17, 2003 12:55 PM
The thing to remember is that if one or two teams have half the entries in a particular race, then the racing becomes very negative. The goal is to put a rider from each of those teams in a break. Make sure you latch onto the break with those two riders, and cling like a remora. This can work from a strategic standpoint, but does not make the racing hyper-competitive, and thus it doesn't really foster development. But hey, you can trumpet your success in cat 4/5 races!
Or animate the raceasgelle
Dec 17, 2003 1:23 PM
When we have a large fraction of the field, riders on our team know they have to ride agressively early to make the break or they'll be left back in field blocking. As a result, there are always a lot of early break attempts and counterattacks until a break sticks. Since our team has been riding together a while and has a fairly good sense of tactics, I think this fosters development by allowing newer riders to see some team tactics played out. I think it adds a level of strategy in figuring out what is or isn't a good break that might not be present without a few strong teams.
Also, when a team has several riders, it is easier to have some of them sacrifice their own ambitions to serve the needs of the team which also leads to more aggresive riding.

What doesn't foster development is a field of individuals afraid to attack because they don't want to be dropped later, riding around waiting for the final sprint.
I like the reasoningThe Human G-Nome
Dec 17, 2003 2:01 PM
re: ? about racing clubsNo_sprint
Dec 17, 2003 12:12 PM
Each club has it's own personality. To answer some of your questions, there is no cutoff for us to add new riders, don't worry about sending 20 guys to a race of 40. It's simple, to promote the sport, the sport needs racers, regardless of teams. If you're going to tell people they can't race if they want to, you're doing a dis-service to every single person involved. Kit orders get submitted by now already, you want to have them by the first race if possible. The larger the order, the more pull you'll have for production. Our first order of each year is around 500-700 kits I believe. (Darn large club)

Our team has over 75 4/5 racers and I don't know absolutely, however, I believe more than 45 3s. I don't take part in the management, but it's surely not easy, I do know how it works.

Good luck.
Thanks NSThe Human G-Nome
Dec 17, 2003 1:23 PM
That's a huge club! If you have 75ish 4/5s, then there's never a concern that 40 out of the 50 entries allowed in a particular race (let's say) are going to be representing your squad? Usually in a race, I'll see 6 or 7 members from the same team but usually no more then that. Seems like you can get to a point where you're only racing yourselves. Doesn't seem like much fun. I can't imagine having to front the money for 700 new kits every year. Sweet Gesus, I thought I had problems.
Thanks NSNo_sprint
Dec 17, 2003 1:35 PM
I believe we have around 400 total members, many order two kits. Those of us who race 20 races per year and some of us who race 85+ races per year go through them fast, especially when regularly pavement surfing.

Virtually none of our races are capped at 50 riders. Those that are typically are cat 5 only, of which, a large contingent of our team to make one of those is maybe 12. In SoCal where can race from Jan 31 to Sept, sometimes two races a weekend, we do not get the entire team out each and every time, or even close. We have *targeted* races, you are likely familiar. Some of those mentioned won't race once. I will say it is very nice when we have 12-15 guys in one race, regardless of field size. Anyone bringing numbers like those will have dominant numbers relative to other teams.

You guys thinking about a small trip to Good Ol' Days?
YepThe Human G-Nome
Dec 17, 2003 2:03 PM
You both have me rethinking things now. That is afterall, why I posted in the first place. We're Nor-Cal, but we're starting a chapter in San Diego this year so there will be a few of us down in SoCal as well.
Do you ride for SDBC? (nm)mexican-JUMPING-frijoles
Dec 17, 2003 2:08 PM
No I don't...No_sprint
Dec 17, 2003 2:15 PM
Email me for more info at no_sprint at yahoo dot com if you'd like.
Fairness and NumbersNightengale
Dec 30, 2003 12:05 PM
You thinking about mob rule? Rules of sportsmanship still apply. Blocking does not mean a la football. A better word is marking or covering.
Fairness and NumbersThe Human G-Nome
Dec 30, 2003 1:06 PM
"Blocking does not mean a la football"

who said it did?
Fairness and Numbersasgelle
Dec 31, 2003 7:58 PM
Nightengale wrote, "A better word is marking or covering."

These are fine words but they mean completely different things than blocking which is a legitimate strategy and has nothing to do with football (which is something no one but you said).