|info on wattage figures for racers?||DougSloan|
Nov 30, 2003 1:27 PM
|Has anyone seen any data for raw wattage and watts/kg for racers performing the 2 x 3mi tt test? Would be particularly interested in power by category of racers. If not, any anecdotal info from you guys? Thanks.
|I'm sure that there is some info out there.||MR_GRUMPY|
Nov 30, 2003 3:40 PM
|I've always thought that you needed a constant output of over 300 watts to hang with the cat 3's. For myself, the only time that I get measured, is on a Computrainer on a flat 10K TT. I can average a pathetic 265 watts for the 10K. And that's with my heart screaming 10 beats over LT.
My watts/kg results is the reason that I don't do too many Road Races anymore.
|Too many variables...||Asiago|
Nov 30, 2003 7:53 PM
|If I could put out 300W sustainable (which is mine and my coaches' ultimate goal BTW) I'd be absolutely freakin' flyin!
Food for thought: I went to analytic cycling and to their power cruncher. I used their base situation: asphalt road, no wind, etc; added in my particulars (weight) and power output 250W. Id be moving at 25.6mph. I'd be one helluva cat3... Of course, this is just an estimation, but analyticcycling.com are pretty sharp folks...
|re: info on wattage figures for racers?||asgelle|
Nov 30, 2003 5:53 PM
|A discussion and table of this is at:
The table you want is in the form of an excel spreadsheet about half way down. It gives W/kg for 5s, 1 min, 5 min, and 20 min, breaking the range into categories. In brief, the 5 min. power for world champion level is 7.60, Cat 1=5.43, and Cat 3=4.35. I would recommend the full article and the entire table for a more compete picture.
|good info; thanks||DougSloan|
Dec 1, 2003 8:31 AM
|re: info on wattage figures for racers?||PMC|
Dec 2, 2003 12:22 PM
|Doug, I'm not quite sure if this is what your looking for but I thought I'd toss my winter trainer wattage out for comparison.
My racing background goes back only through this year. I've been a "cyclist" for 10+ years (now 34) but didn't start racing until this spring. My max heart rate is right around 198 and my 60 minute threshold heart rate is between 172-174.
Off season training this winter will be mostly done on a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine (icy roads already here in MN) with a standard road racing bike equipped with a Graber PowerTap. I also have an industrial type cooling fan setup so overheating isn't an issue unless the intensity levels are really high.
The workouts at this point are mainly zone 1-2 (118-128, 128-148) work with weekly zone 3 (148-162) worked in for shorter periods of time. These are based on this online HR zone calculator.
A typical trainer ride would be
20 minutes warm up zone 1 115-125 HR at around 180-200 watts
40-50 minutes work zone 2 135-145 HR at around 250-260 watts
20-30 minutes cool down zone 1 120 HR at around 180-200 watts
Average wattage for the ride is usually around 220-240 for 75-90 minutes
Once or twice a week I'll work in 30 minutes of zone 3 at 155-160 which is usually around 290-300 watts.
Dec 2, 2003 1:47 PM
|That is some serious power you put out. 180-200W in zone 1! Zone 3@300W! Holy cr@p! My ultimate goal (and doubt I'll reach it next season) is 275W@LT!!!
You must be a helluva TT'er.
|Your numbers HAVE to be INACCURATE||CARBON110|
Dec 2, 2003 2:32 PM
|I am obsessed with wattage and never ride without my power meter. But your numbers are just to HIGH to be realistic. Go to topica.com and punch in wattage. Surf the links and find out what your doing wrong. It is impossible to maintain 200 watts for anyone in Zone 1 Lance included for 20 minutes. You can't stay in Zone 1 running 200 watts. Our HR measures are the same. Id like you to email me your exact data with a CP30 test which should be easy. Im not trying to insult you but those numbers ar enot believable|
|thanks; what is your TT power? nm||DougSloan|
Dec 3, 2003 10:05 AM
|Doug not sure if you were referncing to me.....||CARBON110|
Dec 3, 2003 1:04 PM
|But being the obssesive peronality that I am concering watts, In a 12 mile TT last year before I ever lifted weights I could average 240-255 MAX average. Slightly rolling course, certainly not flat. I weigh 125-127 lbs during the race season. As far as an attack effort I can hit 7-760 watts on an uphill burst. I consider these numbers low. But I know how long I can sustain an effort and due to training techniques like: specific cruise intervals for flat sprinting and field surg efforts, force workouts and just being economic during a race I know I can beat most of the field if I race smart.
BUT!!! After lifting weights this winter and staying away from group rides Im certain I will be higher in my wattage and longer in my sustained efforts
Now my coach who races against everyone from Helthnet to USPS can average 325 at the end of the season and was I think 3rd in last years National cross race. He can do better during peaks and the middle road season but just to give you an idea the difference between cat3/4 and amature pro/pro
Also it is TO EASY to screw up data. The hardest thing about POWER readings and power meters is making sure its ACCURATE! Very difficult to do since there are innumerable variables.
|Accurate Power Meters||asgelle|
Dec 3, 2003 6:10 PM
|"Also it is TO EASY to screw up data. The hardest thing about POWER readings and power meters is making sure its ACCURATE! Very difficult to do since there are innumerable variables."
I'm not sure what you mean by this. A PowerTap lets you easily zero the power from the handlebar unit and you can easily check calibration by hanging a known weight from a pedal while holding the wheel still. I believe you can also do this with a SRM. What are the innumerable variables you're referring to?
|thanks; what is your TT power? nm||PMC|
Dec 3, 2003 3:51 PM
|You guys have caught me with my pants down ;-)
I've never rode an organized time trial or even own a time trial bike so I don't really know. I haven't ridden it much outdoors but did do a practice run for a two man TT I was thinking of entering with a riding buddy. We did a 10 mile out and back (20 total) with 60 second pulls on a pancake flat stretch of country road. If I remember, on the front wattage was around 330 and sitting it was around 275 but those are just from memory. I got it last June and put just a few rides on it before putting it away for this current off season. I also have not really been downloading any files to date. The software it came with didn't do much for me and the only file I've downloaded to it was a practice crit earlier this year which didn't look like much of anything.
Carbon - my numbers over the last few days have been quite lame as I've been suffering from a head cold and sore throat my in-laws were nice enough to pass on over the holidays when they stayed with us. As it hasn't really moved into my lungs, I've continued to ride. Not that it matters but my physical stats are as follows 6'1", 160 lbs with a 35.25 inch inseam.
Tonights numbers for a 30 minute spin at 200 even were a very unimpressive 140 bpm even. If I were to guess, 30 at 200 would normally be around 10 bpm less. Yesterday I did 80 minutes with a 180-190 watt for 20 minute warm-up and 15 min cool-down period and somewhere around 260-280 watt work period of 45 minutes. Averages for the 80 minute total were 232 and 152, nothing special at all. I'll just say that when I'm health, they're somewhat better.
I also did a search for zone 1 power on Topica and the only thing I found was a reference to someone who put out 75-100 watts at heart-rates of up to 130. That seems really low to me but maybe it's normal.
Take it for what you will.
|What I ment......||CARBON110|
Dec 3, 2003 8:30 PM
|Variables? Everything makes a differnce. The effort you put in, the workout you had the day before, your rest, your gearing, your cadence, your choice of course, the wind, traffic, maintaining the right HR zone, On top of Callibrating a power meter correctly in addition to the power meter being accurate, battery being strong, haveing the data correct on evervything from the size of your tires to how many seconds apart your meter reads and records your training, how your pedal stroke is, if your in a good mood...etc etc Duplicating a workout so you can measure it to other works outs acurately so you can have an idea of understanding your body is hard to do if you dont do it consistantly...daily even.
After all the idea of wattage is to accurately see how your body is feeling. We have all had days where we felt like crap but were strong on our bikes and other days where you felt great and road like crap. Watts and HR can tell you if your body needs more rest or is rested, how to gauge an effort, mathematically show improvements of strength for workouts Blah blah blah
On a trainer its especially hard to get an accurate assement. Your tire pressure and resistance as well as choice of trainer make a big difference on readouts from your meter. You could do a cp30 for instance on your trainer and one outside someplace flat and the readings will vary largely I assure you.
For example my frind Bill ( 6'4 and like 180 )road a cp30 on his trainer with a PT and did one outside and they were enourmously different. The trainer was much higher in watt readings and find it to be the same. So when on the trainer I use perceived effort along with my HR to gauge my effort and compare those watt readings to similar tests I have done outside . That way I can know what the difference is when Im on the trainer opposed to outside.
Having seen endless testings from SRM/PT you averaging 200 in Zone 1 for 30 minutes is unusually HIGH. I wasnt suggesting you were making this up but merely pointing out that accuracy can be hard to achieve.
|What I ment......||asgelle|
Dec 3, 2003 9:16 PM
|"After all the idea of wattage is to accurately see how your body is feeling"
I don't use power this way. One principal of training is controlling the intensity of a workout. In my opinion, power is the most accurate way to determine the physiological strain imposed by training, so I use power to set the training load of a given workout. For example, I might want to develop power at LT so I'll do a workout of 2X20' at 85% of my LT power. I know that if I maintain this level, I'm developing the system I want. If the workout is too easy, I'll increase power next time. If I can't complete the workout, I know I need to rest.
I have also seen the effect your friend Bill has seen. It's easier to maintain a high power level for an extended period on a trainer because the resistance is constant and it is impossible to coast or ease up on pedal pressure without a drop in speed. On the road, especially a flat one, it is easy to let up slightly on pedal pressure without speed dropping, but average power will be lowered significantly. Because changes in HR lag changes in power, average HR for the two cases may be the same, but HR is a response of the body to the imposed load of working at a given power.
You might want to look through the archives of the wattage mailing list at topica.com. There are people there who explain the relative roles of power, PE, and HR much better than I.
Dec 4, 2003 6:57 AM
|Sorry to reply to my own post.
Instead of the wattage list, the "Training with Power FAQ" http://www.midweekclub.com/powerFAQ.htm , Charles Howe's write-up, http://www.pdqcleveland.org/power.htm or the articles at http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411.html
will give a better idea of the training with power principals.
|re: info on wattage figures for racers?||ozone|
Dec 9, 2003 11:39 AM
|I am not sure this will post correctly but it is basic watts per kilogram study by Andrew C.
5 s 1 min 5 min 20 min 5 s 1 min 5 min 20 min
World Champion/World Record Holder
23.50 11.50 7.80 6.66 19.98 9.78 6.63 5.66
23.16 11.35 7.67 6.54 19.69 9.65 6.52 5.56
22.82 11.20 7.52 6.42 19.40 9.52 6.39 5.46
22.48 11.05 7.38 6.30 19.11 9.39 6.27 5.36
22.14 10.90 7.24 6.18 18.82 9.27 6.15 5.25
21.80 10.75 7.10 6.06 18.53 9.14 6.04 5.15
21.46 10.60 6.96 5.94 18.24 9.01 5.92 5.05
21.12 10.45 6.82 5.82 17.95 8.88 5.80 4.95
UCI Div. I/II Pro
20.78 10.30 6.68 5.70 17.66 8.76 5.68 4.85
20.44 10.15 6.54 5.58 17.37 8.63 5.56 4.74
20.10 10.00 6.40 5.46 17.09 8.50 5.44 4.64
19.76 9.85 6.26 5.34 16.80 8.37 5.32 4.54
UCI Div. III pro
19.42 9.70 6.12 5.22 16.51 8.25 5.20 4.44
19.08 9.55 5.98 5.10 16.22 8.12 5.08 4.34
18.74 9.40 5.84 4.98 15.93 7.99 4.96 4.23
18.40 9.25 5.70 4.86 15.64 7.86 4.85 4.13
Cat. 1 18.06 9.10 5.56 4.74 15.35 7.74 4.73 4.03
17.72 8.95 5.42 4.62 15.06 7.61 4.61 3.93
17.38 8.80 5.28 4.50 14.77 7.48 4.49 3.83
17.04 8.65 5.14 4.38 14.48 7.35 4.37 3.72
Cat. 2 16.70 8.50 5.00 4.26 14.20 7.23 4.25 3.62
16.36 8.35 4.86 4.14 13.91 7.10 4.13 3.52
16.02 8.20 4.72 4.02 13.62 6.97 4.01 3.42
15.68 8.05 4.58 3.90 13.33 6.84 3.89 3.32
Cat. 3 15.34 7.90 4.44 3.78 13.04 6.72 3.77 3.21
15.00 7.75 4.30 3.66 12.75 6.59 3.66 3.11
14.66 7.60 4.16 3.54 12.46 6.46 3.54 3.01
14.32 7.45 4.02 3.42 12.17 6.33 3.42 2.91
Cat. 4 13.98 7.30 3.88 3.30 11.88 6.21 3.30 2.81
13.64 7.15 3.74 3.18 11.59 6.08 3.18 2.70
13.30 7.00 3.60 3.06 11.31 5.95 3.06 2.60
12.96 6.85 3.44 2.94 11.02 5.82 2.92 2.50
Cat. 5 12.62 6.70 3.30 2.82 10.73 5.70 2.81 2.40
12.28 6.55 3.16 2.70 10.44 5.57 2.69 2.30
11.94 6.40 3.02 2.58 10.15 5.44 2.57 2.19
11.60 6.25 2.88 2.46 9.86 5.31 2.45 2.09
11.26 6.10 2.74 2.34 9.57 5.19 2.33 1.99
10.92 5.95 2.60 2.22 9.28 5.06 2.21 1.89
10.58 5.80 2.46 2.10 8.99 4.93 2.09 1.79
10.24 5.65 2.32 1.98 8.70 4.80 1.97 1.68
9.90 5.50 2.18 1.86 8.42 4.68 1.85 1.58
"Note: Values are displayed in watts/kg. The weight should be the weight of the body only. Bicycle, kit, water bottles, etc. are all excluded"
|re: info on wattage figures for racers?||triple shot espresso|
Dec 10, 2003 8:04 AM
|Post the link|
|re: info on wattage figures for racers?||asgelle|
Dec 10, 2003 9:08 AM
|It was in the earler message
A discussion and table of this is at:
and now we've gone full circle.
Dec 12, 2003 10:44 AM
|Jonathan Vaughters has some interesting figures on wattage for climbing, TTing and TTTing. Check it out on his web site:
|can't find; do you have a deep link? thanks nm||DougSloan|
Dec 15, 2003 11:21 AM
|wattage took big jump||DougSloan|
Dec 18, 2003 8:04 AM
|Wattage up to 270 from 250 over a month. I guess having a coach is working. Goal is 300.
|wattage took big jump||Asiago|
Jan 12, 2004 10:05 AM
|"Wattage up to 270 from 250 over a month. I guess having a coach is working. Goal is 300."
For how long an interval? 30min? 45min? HR?
Just curious! :) Would love to be able to generate those kind of numbers!