|Weight training issues||spox|
Oct 14, 2003 12:59 AM
|How much one should squat or leg press? 2 times own weight for squat? 2,5 for leg press? What about seated calves and streight leg deadlift?
How much for cat 1 allround roadie? How much for elite mtb racer?
|re: Weight training issues||brider|
Oct 14, 2003 11:03 AM
|Just strive to improve from where ever you are. There's more scatter to the data than anything that will yield a trend, so don't worry about it.|
|re: Weight training issues||stinkyhelmet|
Oct 14, 2003 11:25 AM
|I race sm35+ and cat 2 and have been lifting in the off season for 2-3 years now. I'm 5'8" or 9" weigh 150 and squat no more than 300,2 sets of 10 reps. I don't see much reason to go more than that and besides I run out of weights on my home weight set :-). Have only being doing deadlifts one year but have just about worked up to 150, 2x10. The hams definitely need some work. That's it, squats and deadlifts twice and week and the rest of the time on the bike.|
|re: Weight training issues||RockyMountainRacer|
Oct 16, 2003 8:46 AM
|That's going to very quite a bit depending on the physical size of the rider and what their strengths are, i.e. big fat sprinter or tiny skinny climber.
I don't know how much lifting experience you have, but I have a lot and I think the most important thing you should know is not to focus on the amount of weight you are lifting but on your form instead. If you try to lift too much too soon you can really jack up your knees or even your back if you do a lot of squats.
Finally, I don't know how much correlation there is between being a really good rider/racer and being able to lift a lot in the weight room. I've decided that lifting in the off-season is beneficial to my riding, but it's more of a combination of muscular endurance and power than just brute strength.
|re: Weight training issues||Jon Billheimer|
Oct 17, 2003 9:01 AM
|I'm reading an applied strength physiology book right now by a retired ex. science prof from Oregon State Univ., who was also a former world class power lifter. He advocates power lifting, e.g. power cleans, power snatch, etc. for athletic strength training due to its emphasis on combined strength, speed, and co-ordination. Pat maintains that this type of strength training has the greatest degree of transferability to athletic movements, including cycling. BTW, he's also a competitive masters cyclist. Interesting idea. I'm going to give it a try for a season. Just a thought.|
|re: Weight training issues||RockyMountainRacer|
Oct 17, 2003 10:27 AM
|I would certainly agree with that and I'm also going to try a lot more power lifting this off-season.
My lifting background has been geared toward lacrosse and football--most players of those sports are lifting for different reasons than cyclists--they usually want to gain bulk and weight so they'll get pushed around less on the field. Being a smaller guy, I was always lifting to gain weight, i.e. lots of very high weight low rep stuff.
In any event, now that I focus on cycling I've been doing more of a lower weight higher rep emphasis to avoid gaining excess weight in the off-season. I think explosive power type lifting is neglected by most athletes. During college my lacrosse coach was very up to date on scientific training techniques, and he had our team doing plyometrics along with our lifting. Doing this kind of explosive power work had a TREMENDOUS impact on our players' quickness on the field. I think plyo training could help cyclists a lot for the explosiveness needed to attack, hold the wheel, sprint, blah blah blah. I'm definitely going to include some plyo work along with my power lifting phase as the season gets closer.
Nov 7, 2003 1:38 PM
|Q: "I'm putting together a home gym and thinking about adding a leg press. Is this piece of equipment better for building leg strength than doing free-weight squats on a rack?"James C.
COACH FRED: The whole field of weight training for cyclists is undergoing a rethinking.
Researchers are realizing that the ability to do squats or leg presses doesn't transfer well to cycling. The slow movement isn't specific to pedaling. Also, cycling uses one leg at a time while leg presses and squats employ both legs simultaneously.
Here's the current theorizing: Combine one-leg-at-a-time exercises like lunges or step-ups with one-leg pedaling or sprints on an indoor trainer. This helps convert the strength from the resistance exercises to cycling-specific power.
If you still want that hip sled or leg press, it might be best to do sets with one leg, then the other, instead of both legs together
The Best Exercise
The above discussion of leg presses prompted a strength coach and cyclist to send these recommendations for another weight exercise -- the deadlift.
I am a firm believer in weights when used as a means (not an end) for cyclists. I especially believe that free weights are vastly superior to machines in that barbells and dumbbells teach us to balance and control the resistance, something that no machine can do. In addition, anyone can purchase a simple weight set and keep it stored away at home for easy use and at minimal cost.
I have worked with several cyclists in the past, and one of the best exercises I think any rider can do is the standard narrow-stance deadlift.
Probably the most critical muscle in the body is the lumbar region of the lower spine -- -the erector spinae muscles -- and if these muscles are weak and underdeveloped, then movement becomes impossible.
Additionally, the strengthening of this area can go a very long way to improving athletic performance, and cyclists are no exception. The lower back is under constant stress while riding and yet few riders, whether recreational or racer, spend any time at all training this vital area. Yet all it takes is just three sessions per week for just a few sets before the results really make themselves felt.
I recommend that any beginning weight trainee start with high repetitions to learn proper lifting form and technique, usually in the 15-20 range. Emphasis is not on poundage lifted initially, but rather the ability to lift correctly from the floor by using the muscles of the legs rather than the lower back. I have found over the years that a foundation period of around six weeks is ideal, and then weight can slowly be added to the bar, but never at the expense of form.
One of my clients, a woman in her mid-40s, has experienced remarkable gains in strength in the low back and is thus much stronger on the bike as well, since her back muscles no longer give out on her as they used to.
A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, so by all means riders include the deadlift in their routines! Simplicity should be the hallmark of any training regimen, and the deadlift is one of the simplest of all exercises. -- Timothy S.
What's the proper way to do the deadlift? Here are Coach Fred's pointers:
"Position the barbell in front of you on the floor. Bend your knees and grip the bar with knuckles away from you, hands and feet about shoulder width apart. Hold your back straight and your head up.
"Keeping your knees bent and arms straight, slowly rise to a standing position so the barbell is against your thighs. Use your legs to lift the weight, not your back. Your arms should act like cables attached to the barbell.
"Pause for a second at the top of the lift and then reverse the movement to slowly lower the barbell to the floor. Don't bang the weight down."
|Im not a guru, but have lifting background.||Canidraftyou|
Oct 19, 2003 11:08 PM
|Played several yrs of football, going on 5 yrs racing. Yeah im a big guy playing in a little mans sport.
What ever program you try, make sure that the "Watts" is improved in the end.
Just a few ideas;
When lifting keep feet in the same position as if you was locked into the peddles. Its ok to do a wide stance before/after the peak of the workout, but as the weight increases bring the feet closer in, but not closer than peddle distance. And as you work back down in weight if you like bring the stance back out into a wider stance. "I keep my stance the same "peddle distance", but have seen both.
Take time building up in weight. Like a prior post, its hell on the knees. Make sure you are ready for the weight you are pushing.
Go slow and controlled. Work the legs with the idea of using more than one joint.
Dont work just legs, work all body parts when lifting. If you became powerful in the lower body, and the upper body is out of proportion then you could receive injury/damage to the back when applying power!
I would also focus on pulling exercises for the back and arms. I would not work anyone body part more than twice a week. As the cycling season gets closer, I would bring hte weight down and work more on low weight/high reps like yet another posted. I work my legs twice a week all the way into base II, and then I work legs once a week very low weight with high reps. SORRY FOR BEING LONG! One more idea that I think is valid; after each work out, make sure you ride stationary bike for 20 min. @ 80 rpms with HR not a factor, purpose is to get the lactic acid worked out of the legs and muscle memory.
|OK, comment on this...||James Curry|
Nov 12, 2003 11:00 AM
|I can leg press 450# quite easily
I can't squat more than 90# without taking serious rest breaks
Have taken two years to build up an individual leg curl (hamstring) to 70 pounds per leg.
Am I over built on my quadricepts?
|I've been looking at this a lot, here is my current thinking.||Pack Meat|
Oct 22, 2003 11:20 AM
|I did significantly less weight lifting (squats, leg press and other leg work) last off season than I ever have. I spent a lot more time on the bike and did a lot of Muscle tension intervals on the bike. If you are just looking for road race or cross country mtb power I would concentrate on riding more and lifting less. I also find it interesting that in the beginning of the season I can lift a lot but I don't have that much on the bike power and at the end of the season I can generate tons of watts (about 50 watts more at LT, measured in a lab by blood test) but can only lift about 40% of what I could at the beginning of the season.
With that said I plan on doing a lot of core work this off season to help with stability and form on the bike.
On the general discussion board somebody posted this article that I thought was interesting and will probably try
Finally, when lifting and when on the bike always think in terms of power to weight ratio. That is what you need to think about.
|I think Colnago posted that...||Asiago|
Nov 7, 2003 12:28 PM
|I confess I know next to nothing about weight-lifting at this point, but I do try to learn what I can. I printed a copy of that article and took it to the athletic trainer at my local club. He did not recommend that type of program for me. If I remember correctly, his thinking was that the program suggested by that article, high weight, low reps, many sets would be too intense for me. That type of workout would lead to bulk that I didn't want and just way too hard on my body. He said consider the source of the article, and that it is for guys all juiced up.
Still, interesting thought, and it does seem logical. But I've got two guys I'm working with, and they don't recommend that type of approach, so I'll stick with what they tell me!