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Correct line thru corners(16 posts)

Correct line thru cornersWoof the dog
Feb 1, 2003 6:42 PM
Howdy
what is a correct line through a flat 90 turn if I am leading? Perfect weather, balls to the wall pace, nobody is gonna go on the inside and cause me to brake and stuff.

Red is what i think i do most of the time. But sometimes, when the pace is slower other ways seem to be necessary.

What do you think?

Woof the dog.
re: Correct line thru cornersS-U-B
Feb 1, 2003 8:03 PM
Woof, when I watch the pro's in a crit they go sidewalk to sidewalk and as near the inside corner as possible, basically rounding the corner off as much as possible. This makes sense because it allows you to keep your speed the most consistent. This is really how all corners are taken regardless of leading or in a pack. If your mid road in the pack before the corner, and everyone holds their line, you should come out mid road on the other side as well dont you think? Of course, in the 5's you get alot of dive bombers that think they are racing an indy car and are the only one on the course.
right; none of the aboveDougSloan
Feb 1, 2003 9:31 PM
Start wide, hit the apex, go wide on exit. This is assuming you need that much room at the speed you are riding. Also, assuming you are leading and can pick the line.

Doug
right; none of the aboveWoof the dog
Feb 1, 2003 10:03 PM
could you draw it for me please? Maybe my drawing was not directly reflecting what I usually do? (and I am doing o.k. too, ride plenty of criteriums and been doing training races with people from all kinds of categories.)

I am dying to find out, i need visual aids, start wide, hit apex and exit wide may mean different things to different people too, yaknow.

Thanx

Woof the dog.
right; none of the aboveS-U-B
Feb 1, 2003 11:48 PM
Woof, it's alot like taking a corner on the road. You swing as wide as you can, hit the apex, and then swing back out wide. The blue line would be the closest if you put the entry line all the way to the right and kept it hitting the inside corner and then all the way to the top, or outside again. You ever take some real fast down hills in the mountain? Your not going to try and ride the white line all the way down, you use the whole lane around the corner, atleast I do anyways. Aren't you from California by the way woof? maybe I see you at some races if you are.
right; none of the aboveWoof the dog
Feb 2, 2003 12:12 AM
ok, ok, we are talking about exactly the same thing. The red line that i drew shows that you gotta set up for a faster speed thru that corner by getting all the way to the right way before starting to actually turn. I guess it wasn't clear cause I didnt wanna make a pic too big.

In order to set up for the corner I use more road. In other words I cover more distance but at greater speeds. I am pretty sure thats the fastest way, but sometimes it feels like it'd be faster to just come up on the inside (blue line in my pic), bank it over, maybe come out a little bit wide.

I am on east coast, but did ride enough fast downhills with twisty turns. Almost killed myself at a hairpin turn :-)

Thanx

Woof the dog.
There is a problem here53T
Feb 2, 2003 10:44 AM
The red route has a problem. You approached the turn too far left. Perhaps you did not anticipate the turn early enough to drift gently right. You are now forced to swerve right to "set up" for the turn. What this does is to invite the number 2 or 3 guy to "hold his line" and cut you off to the inside. His line may not be a "fast" as yours (theortically your's has a larger radius, so it can be ridden faster at the limits of traction, in reality none of you are at the limits of traction). The inside line is shorter than the red route and may result in you being passed, or at teast being squeezed outside.

Anticipate the turn as soon as the previous turn is finished, this will eliminate this wastfull "seting up" that is shown on the red route.
abso-lutely! nmWoof the dog
Feb 2, 2003 12:45 PM
It might also be different for different scenariosspeedisgood
Feb 2, 2003 8:45 AM
If you are finishing right after the corner and the line is fairly close to it, you may want to start your sprint as soon as possible. Then you'd do a late apex turn where you initiate the turn sooner and actually hit the apex of the corner late in the turn (meaning you're already starting to straighten out your bike as you pass the apex of the corner).

If the road is wide enough on the exit and the sprint is a little longer (so you want to start your sprint a little later), you can set up for an early apex turn where you hit the apex of the turn early in the turn and end up out further right (in the diagram) than the other types of turns.
re: Correct line thru cornersCARBON110
Feb 2, 2003 2:33 PM
I would say either however you might loose a little energy doing red rather then let gravity yank you around and keeping as straight a line as possible especially if you are leading. Just my thought, but most people will want to overtake you from the outside not the inside on a corner like that, but then again it depends on how fast your going, course....etc. When you are leading and its not either a points lap or close to finish lap, take it however you like but I think the more straight a line the faster. By the way, why the hell would you be out leading a crit if it wasnt a points lap or finish lap, in that case d what ever you need to to win by blocking or other. WooF Dawg :) Hope your season is kick ass...
re: Correct line thru cornersWoof the dog
Feb 2, 2003 4:09 PM
Hee hee hee!
nice drawingDougSloan
Feb 2, 2003 8:13 PM
...but you give me far too much credit. :-)

Doug
LOL What are ya drinkin? nmNo_sprint
Feb 3, 2003 1:45 PM
BAHHAHAAHA NICE !CARBON110
Feb 4, 2003 7:39 PM
You da bomb baby
You da Bomb!
ROTFLMAO!!!!I Love Shimano
Feb 5, 2003 11:16 AM
hehehe
re: Correct line thru cornersKeeponTrekkin
Feb 6, 2003 9:40 AM
I used to race cars and as long as you must slow for the corner, Doug, S_U_B and others are right. Using your diagram, you get to the right (outside of the turn) early and turn so as to hit the apex and then the far side of the exit (called the "track out point") with as long a radius as possible. The goal is to maximize the EXIT SPEED so that your limited power can then accelerate you to as fast a speed as possible down the next straight.

With a car, this means you "turn early" and accelerate through the turn so your exit speed is always greater than your entry speed. Consequently, the radius of the turn is increasing, not constant.

I don't know too much about bike racing, but I usually coast through fast turns. No pedaling means no acceleration which means constant radius. The greatest radius allows the greatest speed at a given lateral acceleration. The theoretically longer path is of no practical consequence. The higher speed offsets the longer path.

If you do not have to slow for the corner, you take the corner as tight as the limit of lateral acceleration (cornering power) allows without scrubbing off speed.

When position matters, the physics is the same, but you're vulnerable to competitive tactics, as others have mentioned.

KoT

PS - great graphics and "race"