|Is Lance Really Better Or Is it His Race Schedule?||BigLeadOutGuy|
Dec 20, 2002 8:18 AM
I just read the post about how Jan ullrich is a slow fat guy. I got to thinking about jans race schedule and lances schedule. There is no doubt that lance is a great tour de france racer but that might be it. He really only has one race on his schedule and thats the tour. Now compared to Jan Ullrich who does double the racing and double the grand tours that Lance does...I wonder how Jan would do if he had fresher legs. Also consider that the whole USPS team is revolved around lance and the tour....Jan doesnt have this luxury either. Take into account that jan has won other grand tours as well. As well, lance has had won a few classics too. I almost feel like its comparing oranges to apples. Either way I think they are both great cyclists.
Just wanted a few thoughts...Let the flames begin =)
|this is Lemonds whole argument||wheelsucker|
Dec 20, 2002 10:33 AM
|Lemond to me is still the greatest american cyclist. He raced full seasons and even had to be out guys on his team to win the tour.|
|Yeah, but LeMond's a whiner and Lance isnt'. (nm)||shirt|
Dec 20, 2002 11:53 AM
|Lemond is a baby still on his mom's breast.||Canidraftyou|
Dec 22, 2002 2:07 PM
|Greg Lemond is a cry baby like the another post said. He should be on the wagon. Lance has done more for cycling than Lemond has. This is why Lance has changed his additude from the days of old. Lemond should not be clashing with everyother thing Lance says or does. That is not being a team player. As Americans in a sport where its us and then world refering to "Respect" as a cycling country, Lemond and Lance need to work together to help cycling become more than just a sport but a "Passion".
Lemond is a cry baby, FACT!!! I had a friend of many years that was going to give me Lemonds picture with his signature that his mother sent him.I told him to keep it, not worthy of being on the same wall with Lance, I would rather wipe my as# with his picture.
Just my thought on it. :)
|same with Tiger Woods...||No_sprint|
Dec 20, 2002 12:12 PM
|Is he really better, or is it his really his schedule? He plays less than half the number of events some play. He also cruises his own jet around and stays in luxury whereas some can hardly even afford to fly around and they stay in their camper. Definite advantage Tiger. Less wear and tear, less travel time, full luxury, no wife and kids nagging about time not spent at home.|
|re: Is Lance Really Better Or Is it His Race Schedule?||James OCLV|
Dec 20, 2002 12:50 PM
|Hmm... the TDF is the only race on Lance's whole schedule?
Well, I think that last year he raced Milan - San Remo (2nd), Paris-Camembert, Tour of Flanders, Gent-Wevelgem, The Amstel Gold (4th), the Midi Libre (1st), the Dauphine Libere (1st), the TDF (1st)...
The previous year he raced The Amstel Gold (2nd), The Tour of Switzerland (1st), and the TDF (1st).
Those are some big races... He's proven that he can win the World Championchips, he's won some classics, too like Fleche Wallone and San Sebastian, came in 2nd in Liege-Bastogne-Liege,and 4th in the Tour of Spain.
I'm not a huge Lance fan, but give credit where credit is due.
So, Lance has made the TDF a priority... BIG DEAL! Ullrich raced the Giro in 2001 as a training race, not to win (which he didn't). Indurain used to get the same rap, but most forget that in the same season Indurain won the Giro, the TDF and came in 2nd in the World Championchips (2nd to Lance, I might add...)!
In 2001, Ullrich came in fit, but not as fit as LA (the difference could be seen in the Mtns.)
I could make other arguments as to why Lemond was a better racer, but that's for another topic...
|Let's touch on Teamwork now =)||BigLeadOutGuy|
Dec 20, 2002 1:25 PM
|He definatly did race more races this year for sure. But for the previous 5 years he hadn't lent team support to the classics team and george hincapie to win a classic. Could you imagine lance leading out a teammate to win a field sprint the way Jan ullrich did in a couple of stages of the 2001 TDF for teammate erik zabel? Lance would never do such a thing. Maybe if jan hadnt given help to his teammate he would have been fresher in the mountains.
just adding fuel to the fire =)
|I thought . . .||speedisgood|
Dec 21, 2002 7:11 AM
|Freddie Rodriguez got 2nd at MSR this year?|
|You're right; Lance was 44th... (nm)||James OCLV|
Dec 23, 2002 6:51 AM
Dec 20, 2002 5:17 PM
|The tradition in Euro Pro cycling is to train in January, start riding "fun" races in February, and use your racing schedule to ride into shape for the classics, the Giro, the TdF, and/or the Vuelta. Ullrich (and many others) appear to need the discipline of racing to get their fitness and racing weight. They enter all kinds of races, and often drop out of few, using them for training. Lance appears to be the primary example of being able to train himself into shape rather than requiring races. If you have the discipline, it should be obvious that training is better - you have absolute control of your program. If you use races for conditioning, it's hard to control the intensity and your risk of injury and fatigue is higher. Very few racers seem to have Lance's discipline. Also, did Beloki ride some kind of major race schedule? Not really - there was no pressure on him until the Tour. And for those who say it is all about the team, I think Beloki has a pretty good team too. He was able to follow wheels all through the Tour, including Lance's wheel up every single mountain. When the hammer dropped, Armstrong and Beloki had both had the same bus ride up the mountain, and Lance just rode away. Right now, he is the dominant rider and if he focused on the Giro or the Vuelta instead of the Tour, he would win them. He's not Eddy Merckx, but nobody is/was. If you take Merckx out of the picture, Armstrong's palmares are in league with the other great riders of history. I find it amusing that Lemond (a great rider IMO) complains that Lance is so focused on the TdF. That was the complaint about Lemond in his day!|
|Kerry... you rock!||CARBON110|
Dec 21, 2002 12:34 PM
|Amen... well said.... I wish there were more people with such an objective perspective and agreeable tone to hash bike stories with where I lived. You said it without sounding pretentious but with enough conviction, although not to much to be arrogant. This board should use te above as an example on how to post your opinion... only a handful of people here seem to have the capability. Happy Holidays!|
|re: Is Lance Really Better Or Is it Bruyneel?||schimanski|
Dec 21, 2002 2:15 PM
|Hasn't Lance on several occasions said that he wants to ride a Giro d'Italia? And Bruyneel himself has said that Lance won't ride Giro because it is not in Postal's interests, that they'll concentrate for TdF. In a team like this a rider (be it Lance or anyone else) doesn't decide what races he takes part in.
And those naive posts about Ullrich being just fat and lazy must have been made by people who are totally blind. Then again if it's first - you win, if second - you lose, the rest of the bunch are just some poor folks who by an accident just happened to be there, right?
|Generally, you'd be right||shirt|
Dec 21, 2002 7:30 PM
|But Postal is unique. Lance calls a whole lot more of the shots than Bruyneel does.|
|Generally, you'd be right but...||schimanski|
Dec 22, 2002 7:24 AM
|Then why does Bruyneel give statements saying "Lance wants to do X, but Postal will do Y because we're only interested in TdF." I've read this year a couple of these statements and seen something similar on Eurosport News sometime ago.
Or is this all some sort of twisted reverse psychology I can't understand? :)
|Generally, you'd be right but...||allervite|
Dec 27, 2002 5:34 PM
|Can't say I've heard those exact words. Can you point me to the article?|
|Generally, you'd be right but...||schimanski|
Jan 2, 2003 9:27 AM
|Well, that quote wasn't an actual quote at all since I don't remember the actual words. Sorry about the wrong quote, but if I remember correct, it was ProCycling's website that had sometime ago a news article where Lance stated he wanted to do the Giro one day and Bruyneel had said it's a no go.
And Eurosport News (or our domestic TV sports news, which I doubt it was since they ignore cycling here) had a little snippet about the same thing last summer/fall. I remember it good because I previously thought Lance was not interested in anything but this one big race (TdF) and I've always held this against him for not even trying anything else... so it was a pleasant surprise for me.
|re: Is Lance Really Better Or Is it His Race Schedule?||da cyclist|
Dec 21, 2002 9:38 PM
|I just thought I'd throw this out there.
Today I raced against Lance. He showed up and did a local cx race. He is a genetic freak. I mean, I always knew he was fast, but I didn't ever understand how fast until today. It's the middle of December and he's out there beating the top cross racer in Texas (who happens to be one of the better master racers in the world - I think he got 8th in Belgium last year) 1 week after nationals. And I'm sure he had been out training before he came to race.
My take on all of this, and I could be wrong, is that Jan wouldn't have won that race today. And I think that's the difference.
|jan can ride a cross bike too||more mud|
Dec 29, 2002 7:38 PM
|he was 5th at the junior cross worlds in 1991.......
plus the cross competition isn't that hard in texas, didn't allison dunlap go down there and win an open race last season?
|jan can ride a cross bike too||da cyclist|
Jan 2, 2003 9:57 AM
|Actually, Dunlap won a couple of B races (which is a cat 4/sport class here in Texas). But you're missing the point. I don't think that there's a single pro out there that trains like Lance does. And what I was trying to suggest was that the difference between them in July is attributable to a difference in their fitness in December.|
|Lance is the perfect example...||James OCLV|
Dec 23, 2002 6:48 AM
|Lance's performances are the perfect example of the results of training with a purpose in mind.
What I mean by that is the majority of the Pro Peleton in Europe still follows the "race into shape" training mentality. The results of this type of training are hit and miss. You are as likely to come into a particular race in shape as you are to come in out of shape.
Lance doesn't race into shape; he follows a measured program that "times" his fitness to peak him for the tour.
This is why he doesn't do every race under the sun. This is also why he hasn't raced the World Championchips in the last few years - it is held too late in the year.
Everything on his schedule serves a purpose. This is also why he won't race the Giro. There's nothing about racing the Giro that will help him win the tour. If you look at all of the races he does right before the TDF, most of them will include courses that are also featured in that year's TDF.
His base fitness is extremely high - he probably won that cross race w/o going too anerobic. It also helps that he is a genetic freak!!