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Thoughts...Questions...Statments.......TALES FROM THE CRYPT!(13 posts)

Thoughts...Questions...Statments.......TALES FROM THE CRYPT!BigLeadOutGuy
Nov 5, 2002 11:20 AM
Hey everyone!!
I hope all is well....I just read the post about base training and its pretty cool...I have a bunch of thoughts to throw out there and hopefully spark some discussion...Ive been holed up in my house with a torn muscle in my upper back so all I can do is spend endless hours spinning on my trainer....and that means I have WAY too much time to think about things...so here it goes!

1) How does a higher or lower cadence effect fitness at the same HR. example....spin at 130rpm at 130 beats or spin at 90rpm at 130 beats

2) During racing you spend alot of time at LT or above and hardly ever in zone 1...how does doing work in zone 1 effect your racing.

3) Trainers are boring!

4) How do you figure out whats the best cadence for you to ride at and race at?

5) whats the best cadence for you to climb at?

6)trainers are boring!

7) whats the best cadence for you to motor on the flats with?

8)trainers are boring!

9) Is strength training with weights better or is on the bike strength training better?

10) Trainers are boring!

11) How about a combination of off and on the bike strength training.

12) being hurt sucks more that riding on a trainer!

13) how does riding twice a day for an hour and a half compare to riding 3 hours straight through

And lastly....

14) spinning on a trainer while being hurt sucks pretty bad...but its better than not being able to do anything!!!

so on that note I will leave you all with this lenghty and quite boring post but I ask you one more question...How is that extra donut going to effect my off season training?
hahaha
have a great day!!
I'll bite oneweiwentg
Nov 5, 2002 11:28 AM
5) whats the best cadence for you to climb at?

for me, personally, I would climb at 90-100 rpm, and attack at at least 115rpm. do I last long at that cadence? no.

how the heck did you get hurt?!
Make that 2 bites =)BigLeadOutGuy
Nov 5, 2002 2:06 PM
I like to climb at around 80-90 rpm...any higher and I just feel like i am huffing too much andy lower and my legs feel like theyve been doused with gasoline and set on fire! hahaha

I am not too sure exactly how I got hurt but my bike fit guy seems to think that it was due to the positioning on my bike...too much stress on the shoulders...so I got a new set up to try that should reduce most of the stress on my neck/back region....so hopefully I will be ok once this thing heals.
Make that 2 bites =)tdflance
Nov 5, 2002 8:36 PM
My cadence usually depends on the climb. On the local .3 mile climb I usually hold at least 100 rpm or more. On the long mountainous climbs its usually alot less.
re: Thoughts...Questions...Statments.......TALES FROM THE CRYPT!CARBON110
Nov 6, 2002 6:57 AM
WEll,
1)Practicing high cadence drills over time will make you a better cyclist therefor, using your fitness better. For instance, high cadence allows you to be more economic which s a VAST improovement to fitness and performance.Less strain/power used to produce the same speed

2)Working in zone one during the off season is good since it will help dvelpoe aerobic base. You should spend one day a week during racing season just to do long zone 1 rieds to maintain aerobic fitness. Also, your heart will be better rested, as it is a muscle it self, and will perform better if you dont maxit out all year long but train it. Build its fitness.

4)Using the right gearing ( finding a ger you can use for high cadence riding and yet remain at race speed )will help you find the right gearing. Also do cadence drills, 4x 2 minute 120rpm during a1 hour ride.

5) I like t climb at 95+ rpm, but it took me a long time to perfect it. My ankel position and pedall stroke were KEY to becoming effecient at high cadence.

6) strength training with weights is IMPERATIVE to possessing muscular endurance and power. A more physically fit and stronger body will be a better rider. Combine this with on the bie strength training, a little in the winter and alot during the season.

Sorry your stuck on the trainer...... hope this gives you some food for thought....
How About Number 13?!BigLeadOutGuy
Nov 6, 2002 7:34 AM
Thanks for all the input guys....Im always interested in listening to everyones opinion!
What I really want to know everyones thoughts on how the effects of riding twice a day for 1:30 compare to 3 hours straight. THe trainer gets pretty boring so there are times that I can only deal with being on the thing for an hour or two at best and on those days ill do 2 sessions.....any thought?
re: Thoughts...Questions...Statments.......TALES FROM THE CRYPT!brider
Nov 6, 2002 7:44 AM
2) During racing you spend alot of time at LT or above and hardly ever in zone 1...how does doing work in zone 1 effect your racing.

Zone 1 aerobic work increases capilarization (sp?), which leads to better oxygen utilization and better clearing of anaerobic by products.

4) How do you figure out whats the best cadence for you to ride at and race at? Experimentation.

5) whats the best cadence for you to climb at? Extended climbs I actually take at a pretty low cadence. Around 75 or so. I'm wierd in that I can stand up for a long time and actually recover. I've ditched the pack in races on long climbs by just inching the pace up a little bit and not really attacking. I've got a couple hillclimb TT titles to my name, so it may just be that I'm a gifted climber (IOW what works for me may not work for any one else).

7) whats the best cadence for you to motor on the flats with? Also pretty low -- around 85-90.

11) How about a combination of off and on the bike strength training. I think this is best, as you'll get better overall strength gains with the weights, but you need to be able to translate that to the bike, and that's where on-the-bike work takes over.

13) how does riding twice a day for an hour and a half compare to riding 3 hours straight through? Different goals, I think. You need the 3 hour rides to get that endurance thing licked, but you'll get better quality from the two-a-day rides (potentially).
re: Thoughts...Questions...Statments.......TALES FROM THE CRYPT!James Curry
Nov 6, 2002 12:49 PM
Brider,
I doubt you remember me, but I hassled you last Winter about weight lifting and racing. It should please you to know that per some of your advice I met all of my goals this season.

Didn't place but that wasn't my goal. Heck, I was so excited to cross the finish line WITH the pack for my first race of the season. Form did fade Early Summer. Form is everything to me now.

Weirdly enough I did the best in Cat 4 and 5 races on what most here would consider a minimalistic training program. The Lance training book really emphasizes shorter workouts with more quality exercises and focus.

I think I brought my fitness level up gradually enough from Base training that my body didn't react badly to the shock of racing. I am pretty certain that regardless of the size of base work done [hopefully more than less] the transition in fitness levels is just a important-the key is gradually raising the intensity while maintaining a strict regimne of base througout the season.

How does my goal sound to you this Winter-

450# Leg press; 6X25 reps, twice a week (end of Winter goal)
Weight from 155# currently to 140# first Spring Race. Less upper body. 4 hour days Saturday and Sunday Base. Next to nothing during the week! Just bought me a set of rollers too! Gettin' ready to fall. It's gonna happen. I know it.

Which leads me to my next, more important request-tips for roller riding. What not to do!
re: Thoughts...Questions...Statments.......TALES FROM THE CRYPT!flyinbowlofmilk
Nov 6, 2002 9:21 PM
First of all I say congradulations to you ,because you much futher up the road than I am. And considering that your body has adapted pretty well to you road racing,is a good thing.Now as far as your goal for the winter they sound good. Just don't starve yourself to get from 155# to 140#. I wish I was down in that range right now,But i am in between 190# and 185#. The idea of less upper body may work to your advantage. The base riding you are doing sound very good to me. Now are far as the roller I would say make sure you are close to a wall for the 1st and 2nd try. Well me and you are in the same boat as far as that,I just got me a trainer. And congradulations on meeting your goals. Your goals this year is my goals for next year as a Cat 5 racer . Good luck with your winter goals and rollers. let me know how the training with the rollers go.

FBM
re: Thoughts...Questions...Statments.......TALES FROM THE CRYPT!brider
Nov 7, 2002 9:13 AM
Can't help you much on the rollers -- never used them myself. All I really know is that you keep the gearing high for gyroscopic effects.

A 450 leg press is doable, I'm sure. Don't remember what apparatus you're using (45-degree sled, Nautilus machine, etc). 6 sets of 25 may be a bit on the high side, however. As for the upper body -- keep doing some maintenance work for mucscle balance. 155 isn't all that heavy. I got a few climbing titles at 150, and could ride hills with the good cat 2s (some prett wiry guys). With the base work you're looking at, you should be ready to get into the hill work and more intense intervals well before the race season hits and be ready to rock.
Some new machine I don't know the name ofJames Curry
Nov 7, 2002 9:22 AM
Ironic. Spend three months looking at the damned name on the machine and still I can't remember it. I think it's called Hammer Strength. Yeah, some of those machines differ a LOT when it comes to weight and one's capacity. I really prefer the tradition style where you're leaning backwards and the weight was on a sled above. My ass hurts so much right now.
Some new machine I don't know the name ofbrider
Nov 8, 2002 10:20 AM
Hammer Stength -- GOOD MACHINES! I really like their leg press. Sometimes a 45-degree hip sled is a bit more satisfying (people can see more weight moving), but the variation you can get on the Hammer just outshines a sled.

But by all means, avoid at all costs the vertical leg presses -- back wreckers, all of them.
re: Thoughts...Questions...Statments.......TALES FROM THE CRYPT!Veloflash
Nov 11, 2002 10:07 AM
2) During racing you spend alot of time at LT or above and hardly ever in zone 1...how does doing work in zone 1 effect your racing.

Appears to be a contentious point. Capillarization at only zone 1 has no scientific support. Great for recovery though.

4) How do you figure out whats the best cadence for you to ride at and race at?

Easy. Experiment with a power meter and HRM on that boring trainer. Establish your power at around race pace then experiment doing blocks over time at various cadences to see which produces the lowest HR at that power output. Then adapt to that RPM so it becomes natural.

5) whats the best cadence for you to climb at?

You can climb at 60rpm or 100rpm. It is the cadence you have adapted to but can be changed through training. LA is your best example.

7) whats the best cadence for you to motor on the flats with?

As for 4)

9) Is strength training with weights better or is on the bike strength training better?

On the bike as it is specific to joint angles and cadence.

11) How about a combination of off and on the bike strength training.

Show me the literature that supports gym strength/power training is a benefit to cycling other than track match sprinting. A South African study into groups of cyclists indicated it was detrimental.

13) how does riding twice a day for an hour and a half compare to riding 3 hours straight through

Not as good. Hire some interesting 3 hour videos :)