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Lance spins at 60/65 rpms, during recovery rides!!!(22 posts)
|Lance spins at 60/65 rpms, during recovery rides!!!||Canidraftyou|
Jun 21, 2002 10:16 PM
I read somewhere, Armstrong spins at 60/65 rpms during some of his recovery rides! I have a thought with a question. My guess would be the reason for this is to get Max. work out with the legs, but yet recovering because your not stressing the heart with an elvated HR.
Any of you all spin at 60/65 rpms on recovery rides and then pick other recovery days where you spin at higher rpms?
What would be your guess on the reasons? Pro's/Con's.
|101 views and no opinions!!!||Canidraftyou|
Jun 23, 2002 8:29 AM
|That is direct proof of the lack of knowledge in this group. Or is it the unwillingness to help others who are asking for assistance in an area of training. "People that walk around blind, learn from listening, people that walk around deaf, learn from watching, people that fail to get involved, because of lack of knowledge or lack of interest, are insecure or have nothing to offer society." (ME)
OH, OH I have a question! Should I or should I not race?
OH, OH I have a question! I cant get my HR up, am I over training?
OH, OH I have a question! What are the best budget racing wheels?
If the question dont allow an opinionated answer, then for the most of you, your lost! Have not a clue. In closing, most of you should stay in the Rec. Discussion group, because you dont really have a clue. Your here trying to learn, but have nothing to offer in return.
|now close to 300 views||climbo|
Jun 24, 2002 4:37 AM
|do you really want 300 reponses to this drivel?|
|For Climbo's eyes only||Canidraftyou|
Jun 27, 2002 6:35 AM
|848 have viewed or responded to this drivel. Its not about how many I can get to respond. Its about obtaining information on a subject, wanting Pro's and Con's. Some must be stimulated to get a response from. That all its about. "Hope you enjoy the learning in this discussion, or are you a teacher of many things, but only wish to refrain yourself from passing on your wisdom.
|re: Lance spins at 60/65 rpms, during recovery rides!!!||LC|
Jun 23, 2002 9:25 AM
|Recovery rides have only one purpose...to let you recover from the previous day(s) efforts. Many times after a really tough race or training ride in the hills, 60/65 rpm is all I can do without my legs feeling worse than if I had not ridden at all. If I push it up to 90+ on some recovery days when the legs have nothing left it just feels like I am working my legs and heart too hard. In fact, today feels like one of those days, but I know that I will still feel better after getting on the bike and turning the pedals at whatever rate I can, than sit in this chair.|
|Agree, but 80+ rpms helps break up Lactic Acid build up!||Canidraftyou|
Jun 23, 2002 1:15 PM
|"Agree, but 80+ rpms helps break up Lactic Acid build up." I have played around with the 60/65 rpms on recovery rides. For me at slow rpms, my legs seem to be under more stress, and I need to be more focused on the Heart Monitor to keep it with in the training zone.
Thanks for your reply LC.
|Agree, but 80+ rpms helps break up Lactic Acid build up!||Wayne|
Jun 23, 2002 3:02 PM
|Not sure what this means, but lactic acid doesn't stick around in the muscles in any appreciable amount post-exercise. Spinning at either 60 rpm or 100 rpm as long as it's "spinning" or not putting much force through the pedals shouldn't produce much lactic acid at all. But this begs the question whether lactic acid has anything to do with recovery anyway.
In short, your rpms probably don't matter a hill of beans as long as it's an EASY 60 or an EASY 90, just enough to stimulate increased blood flow (and metabolism) in the muscles, open up the glycogen window, etc.
And remember you don't know if someone is a champion because of, or inspite of their training methods, figure out what works for you.
|there doesn't seem to be a reason to spin at 60||peloton|
Jun 23, 2002 4:20 PM
|Cycling is concentric muscle contractions. Concentric muscle contractions are dependent on the speed you do them during training. If you spin at 60rpm, then you will be good at spinning at 60 and not 90. There would be a much smaller training benefit at your normal cadence if you trained at a much slower cadence frequently. Basically, you want to train as sport specific as possible- the same movements and speeds. 90 is a pretty easy cadence to keep up once you have the nueromuscular pathways established to do so through repitition and training. Lance's CNS is well developed for spinning at a high cadence. People who spin more slowly usually just don't have the nervous system development to spin- it doesn't have anything to do with muscle strength or fiber type. On an easy day it would probably make more sense to just back off on intensity and spin easy gears at your normal cadence for recovery. I've read Lance frequently uses at 12-25 cassette for training, and has said he should probably use a 27! This is so that he can spin at a high cadence while still keeping intensity low. I would be very surprised to see if he uses a cadence of 60 with any regularity. Wayne is right on about when referring to lactate above. It's about low intensity, not cadence. The lower cadence doesn't make sense from a standpoint of clearing lactate as Wayne states. It also doesn't make sense from a sport specific movement perspective. I can't think of much reason to spin at 60. The lower cadence might even hurt performance if done enough.|
|Its in he's training log!||Canidraftyou|
Jun 27, 2002 6:50 AM
|Thanks for your reply, I do respect any and all you speak on. Let me clear this up. I dont think LA is GOD! However he is a great cyclist and we can learn from him. As I can learn from you and others.
LA is doing 60/65 rpms after a high intensity ride for a moderate peroid of time during his Base III riding I think it was. It just seems to go against everything I thought was correct. This is the reason for the post. I only want to train right, and everything I can learn on this matter helps me and others to become better cyclist.
I agree with you when you said, if you train at 60 rpms then you'll be good at 60 rpms. And if one trains at 90 rpms then you'll be good at 90 rpms. I understand that with in reason, depending on the style of riding at where within the work outs.
|re: Lance spins at 60/65 rpms, during recovery rides!!!||cguck8|
Jun 23, 2002 10:10 PM
|First off, Mr.Smith, If you'd like straight answers, a
message board isn't a place to get them. I noticed you got
a bit frustrated with no replys. Coaches are expensive but
the knowledge is priceless. Second, as per Eddy Gragus,
exertion on recovery rides shouldn't be much more than what
it would be when your out walking. That's why it's recovery.
60/65 rpm's on a recovery ride really doesn't make any
sense but then again, we aren't Lance Armstrong and our
coach isn't Carmichael. A low RPM will most likely heighten
acid in the muscles so I would suggest spinning a recovery
workout. Overall, it's less stressful which is what the point is. Wayne, lactate is very important in recovery. You
need to get that stuff out as much as possible. That's why
cooldowns are necesary, especially in stage races.
|I assume when were talking about...||Wayne|
Jun 24, 2002 3:18 AM
|a recovery ride, we're talking c. 24 hours later not a cool-down spin. I'll stand by my first statement that muscle lactate levels the day after are normal and not elevated. I've seen some stuff about spinning post-exercise does indeed clear lactate so that if you measure it at certain time intervals its less than if you just stopped as soon as the effort was over. But I've never seen anything that shows that the spinning by lowering lactate actually increases performance on subsequent days, it may be the case but I've never seen it. I think it's part of the myth that lactate is bad and therefore needs to be avoided, I'm not sure that it's the case. But I'll admit it's one of the truism of cycling that you should spin after an effort to help clear the lactate from the muscles in an effort to improve recovery (but I don't think it's a fact that clearing lactate post exercise leads to improved recovery). Maybe someone has looked at it but I've never read about it other than in "training" books where they tell you "truisms" with out supporting literature.|
|I assume when were talking about...||cguck8|
Jun 24, 2002 9:32 PM
|your correct, I was speaking of recover right after intensity. It is also correct that lactate levels
will also be close to normal, possibly very minimally elevated dependant upon the level exertion prior.
|re: Lance spins 60/65 rpms during recovery rides (makes sense)||spox|
Jun 23, 2002 10:42 PM
|Recovery ride must be double-easy.
So one keeps rpm's low and ride is not stressing for neuro level. And one keeps easy gear on a flat terrain so muscular level gets easy day too.
One never loses any fitness in a recovery day or two, but can ruin coming hard days.
|re: Lance spins at 60/65 rpms, during recovery rides!!!||kaiser|
Jun 24, 2002 6:55 AM
|I don't care what Lance does.
I also forgot that it's almost TDF time, so the boards will suddenly awaken and be flooded with people who'll make absolutely inane observations on OLN, and ask all of us if they should mimick exactly what Lance did in said observation. Have you ever considered the possibility that Lance might some day ride next to you, make an observation, and perhaps make a change based off of what HE sees?
Do what you feel comfortable with. If it does not seem to be working, then try something else. If you read that some people benefit from a higher RPM, then try it. You really don't need our validation.
On rest/recovery days, I ride whoever I damn want, and usually what I want is an easy ride. No "hurt".
|re: Glad you said it. I was waiting for someone to say it.||cguck8|
Jun 24, 2002 9:37 PM
|Why wait, unless you dont have enough to respond!||Canidraftyou|
Jun 27, 2002 5:55 AM
|Why wait, unless you dont have enough to respond! That applies in racing, someone cutting infront of you at the gas station or speaking your mind in here. Grow up!
Jun 25, 2002 9:38 AM
|I had simply been ignoring this thread as one of the "Lance is God" trolls...|
|Troll I am not!..Never said LA is GOD!..Ignore you failed to do!||Canidraftyou|
Jun 27, 2002 6:24 AM
|I thought alot of your post in the past RANGER! I never said LA was GOD! "Dont pick a fight unless you can win, or at least grow from it" (ME).
I would like to keep this on the subject of cycling (Race/Training). Sometimes people need to be challenged to get a response. If one speaks with simplicity its not an illustration of their IQ, it may be adapting 2 the ones he/she is talking 2.
|Yup, just what Carmichael recommends||Kerry|
Jun 24, 2002 5:06 PM
|Per a recent quote (VeloNews?) Chris Carmichael recommends super easy recovery rides, keeping HR below 130 and low cadence. No strain at this RPM because the HR is kept low. This is far easier than most of us ever go.|
|It seems to me, at 130 HR at low rpms. is more strain.||Canidraftyou|
Jun 27, 2002 6:05 AM
|It seems to me, at 130 hr at low rpms is more strain than high rpms at 130. The reason for asking the question was for this reason. I have played around with Mr. Carmichaels suggestion, and its seems that the legs are actually getting some stemulation at low rpms with 130 HR than at higher rpms. Do you have more thought on this, Kerry?
|Theoretically as well...||Wayne|
Jun 27, 2002 10:28 AM
|if you're keeping the same HR (or same wattage if you have a power display) lower rpms should place more stress on the muscle than high rpms. Motor unit recruitment is mostly orderly according to force, so slow-twitch highly fatigue resistant units always come in first where as units with more fast-twitch/less fatigue resistant characteristics come if you need more force. If your controlling for wattage (or HR) you can either use low-force/high rpms or higher force/lower rpms. With the latter you may be recruiting parts of the muscle that are less fatigue resistant and perhaps theoretically more in need of recovery. Of course if you're going easy enough even your low rpms will only require a force that can be produced by highly fatigue resistant motor units.|
|Mr. Wayne, that helps me understand. Thanks!||Canidraftyou|
Jun 27, 2002 5:42 PM
|Very well put. You have my respect, I hope that others have learned from your post.