|intervals that make you puke?||DougSloan|
May 28, 2002 2:16 PM
|How often do you all do intervals that really, really hurt? The kind that make you feel like passing out and puking up your guts?
In cross country and track in high school and college (ran 400 in college) I was literally puking my guts up about once a week during the season. Now, I hardly ever go that hard. Is that why I get trounced?
|re: intervals that make you puke?||mtber|
May 28, 2002 2:35 PM
|When doing LT ints, never, although they do feel pretty tough when I just start doing them in Feb.
I am told that you do not need to go 'all out' for VO2 ints but I usually do anyway. These really hurt and sometimes make me nauseus.
The latest interval incarnation that my coach has thrown in are 1.5-3.5 minutes at high LT followed immediately by 30 secs ALL OUT. Then 2 min rest. These make me just about keel over. I did these twice last week (no race this past weekend).
BTW I have only puked once from working out (XC running hill repeats) but this was directly following my last TWO Whoppers ever!
|I tried LFR's 30x30 sprint intervals and almost lost it||Tig|
May 28, 2002 3:03 PM
|30 seconds of 30 MPH with a 30 second rest before the next is definitely something for the super-fit racer! By the end of the 2nd effort, I was wondering why I though I could get away with this. On the 3rd effort, I couldn't get past 27 MPH and almost returned the water in my stomach to mother nature. I'll modify this to suit my fitness level and age better, while still pushing myself in the future. It takes too long to recover after doing this level of torture to yourself!|
|wicked, aren't they?||lonefrontranger|
May 28, 2002 8:31 PM
|didn't you read the disclaimer where I said "only for the weak of mind" or something to that effect?
Seriously, the really intense stuff needs to have quite a bit of base and fitness to back it up before you start playing around with it. You can really injure yourself by trying to pile on intensity without correct preparation. The worst part about training is that the more unfit you are, the easier it is to get all mad at yourself and lose patience, pile on too much too soon and wind up "overtrained" and dead. Let's not even call it overtraining, because I think that word has the wrong connotations, like you're some super-fit 3% bodyfat type. In my experience, it's the rookie athletes who are at the worst risk of overtraining, not the elite ones, because the elite ones are primed to handle these kinds of demands.
Joe Friel calls it "overstressing" or "over-taxing" the system. Basically it means you slam your body with more than it can handle all at once. This is where you get six week bouts of bronchitis or those chronic nagging tendonitis deals going on. It's all about base, and the bigger the base, the higher you can take your peak when you eventually build up to it, but you really have to be patient and take your time.
I came into my build phase (where I start my interval training) after 2 full months of solid base training (with 2 months of recovery and cross-training prior to that), and I'm talking 10-12 hours per week on the bike. Not everyone has the luxury of good outdoor riding weather in the winter like we do in Boulder, but you can apply these hours to the MTB or the 'cross bike (I did a lot of my base on the 'cross bike actually) and not be quite so cold or miserable. Base is base, it's the effort that counts, not the format.
I really dig my training program because I feel it came through for me in that stage race. My boyfriend's teammate, in contrast, does 3 fast group rides and a midweek crit every week, with not that many base miles on for the year, and considers this good hard training. IMNSHO he does far too much riding in what I term "the dead zone". Sure enough, where I felt stronger every stage, he wound up feeling more and more stressed and fatigued each day, and today he called us up: "I'm sick and my throat is sore - what should I do?...". Whaddaya know, he overstressed his system, and now it's gone and done a forced shutdown on him. My SO and I have tried to give the guy some guidance, but he's somewhat new to the game and I guess we all have to make the same mistakes on our own (been there, done that).
Group rides are fun. Going out by yourself and doing intervals sucks. It takes a lot of discipline to stick to a program, and I'll be the first to admit I wasn't 100% "on program" every day of my training either. The body is amazingly adaptable though, and unless you're going to be playing at the elite levels, I think it's safe to say that you can factor in a 5-10% "fudge" rate without torpedoing the entire works.
May 29, 2002 2:33 AM
|My coach has suggested that for the next 4 weeks to bring on a physiological peak that I undertake a series of V02 max intervals. This is what all my training has built up to and now it is time. Big race at the end of June.
I am aiming to build up to 3:3 topping out the HR each rep. 5 sets. These things are hard, really hard
My only problem is psyching up to do them. My question is how do you get it together mentally for the lactic punishment? Race Day going hard over a hill, its no problem but to max out on a trainer as intervals, thats a different story!
Any tips or thoughts would help me, right now Im not looking forward to them.
May 29, 2002 5:26 AM
|I find that if I do my intervals at the same location each time, I can 'race myself' by trying to get farther in a given time each interval. As the year(s) progresses, I can see how much distance I add to say, my 3 min VO2 hill interval. This turns it into a kind of competition and motivates me more.
You say you are doing your ints on a trainer. Why? I realize that it offers you complete environmental control but I think you lose out a bit to not actually be riding up a hill, etc when you do your hard efforts. There must be an out of the way road w/ a 3 min hill SOMEWHERE near where you live? If not, I find that loud, fast paced, hard rock music helps to motivate me on the trainer. Good luck.
|nail on the head LFR.||titansprodigal|
May 29, 2002 3:29 AM
|I'm in a rural area and the only hammerhead for miles around. I've learned the discipline for intervals solo, however as most know on this forum there is still no way to get race pace solo.
I guess im missing something on my interval sessions. Ive got a excellent base and have been doing intervals for sometime this year. Even at a few beats abouve MHR and im completely gasping on a uphill sprint and digging deep i dont get that pukey feeling during intervals. Maybe dizzy but not as described. I want that and want to hurt bad.
|nail on the head LFR.||mtber|
May 29, 2002 5:30 AM
|I wouldn't worry about not feeling like you actually have to puke! I can't say that I actually get that feeling very often - you just need to feel like you are absolutely worked, like you couldn't go 10 more feet. It sounds like you are putting in good efforts - maybe try what I suggested to LeGrimper - always doing ints at the same location so you always have a goal to beat.|
May 30, 2002 12:25 PM
|I tried them on a whim more as a test than a dedicated workout. At 39, I sure don't have the fitness that served me so well 10 years ago! Even though it doesn't sound like it, I'm taking my time to build fitness after taking a few years off. I started riding once again over a year ago. Last year was generally called my "base year". Yes, once you reach a certain age level it takes MUCH more time to improve without over-stressing yourself and causing injury.
This year is my "build year". It had the normal base start followed by a build, but done at a moderate pace. The improvements I've seen in my ability over the last 14 months have pleased me, yet I know I still have a long way to go. I have a limited amount of training time, so I have to make the best of what is available. My solo rides are usually for recovery or lower intensity/longer duration intervals just under TT pace. I use the Cat 1-2-3's in a group ride for race condition VO2, sprint, and other high intensity intervals.
Next year's build will be with racing in mind. I'll only do a few races this year for fun and to compare my fitness against my competitor's. The ol' brain still remembers how to win races for the most part, but the body is taking its time! Also, it is important to know I'm not in a super serious racing desire frame of mind. Having burned out in the past makes me keep everything fun and not too serious. You have helped me in several ways to improve fitness and sharpen tactics, and I thank you. Good luck in your future races, and if you get stuck in Galveston next winter and need some good people to ride with, let me know.
|re: intervals that make you puke?||Avanti Guy|
May 29, 2002 6:17 AM
|I went through a bit of a silly training phase for a while where I was doing my own training without guidance and knowledge and was riding about 375 miles per week all flat out. This included some russian intervals on the trainer, I once finished a hard interval and got a blood nose, I though thats odd, 45 seconds later i started my next interval and wham i passed out and hit my head hard on my stem. I stop when I get blood noses now :).|
|Good Advice from the Hammerhead!||Jon Billheimer|
May 29, 2002 6:28 AM
|LFR's advice is sound. Take heed, all you masochists! You do NOT need to kill yourself or torture yourself to achieve a very high level of fitness. If you do decide to "top off" with super-maximal training you'd be well advised to keep that period pretty short, six weeks at most, since the body's ability to adapt to that degree of overload is limited, and psychologically these things can become counter-productive.
For a more humane, but highly productive session, try vVO2 max 30-30 sessions. They'll improve economy, LT, and velocity at LT and don't hurt quite so badly. vVO2max, or velocity at VO2 max, is the velocity which if maintained for six or seven minutes would elicit maximal oxygen uptake. You can determine this by going as hard as you can for a six minute interval. Your average speed is your vVO2 max. Then do 30 second intervals at this speed with 30 second recoveries at half speed until you can't hold the vVO2 max speed any longer. You'll find that your recovery and max heartrate will gradually increase until toward the end you're achieving very, very high heart rates. But you won't be throwing up or getting nosebleeds! Sheesh!!!
|question for you||JohnG|
May 29, 2002 6:41 AM
|First, thanks for the explanation of VO2 Max testing. |
Do you have a rule of thumb for the # of these V02 max intervals (as defined by the "holding the max speed") for different levels of your fitness? I.e. what # is consistant with a 100 race fit level, pre-race level, etc).
My intervals are much less organized. I just do them when I'm feeling good and the situation seems appropriate. No more than two per ride though.
|question for you||Jon Billheimer|
May 29, 2002 8:01 AM
This doesn't have anything to do with testing to determine your maximum oxygen uptake potential. It is a type of workout which will improve a number of performance parameters. Velocity at VO2 max is simply that velocity or work rate which, if carried on for a six or seven minute period would result in you attaining your maximal oxygen uptake and utilization. So these intervals are carried out at a submaximal work rate. The idea of the short recoveries is to allow you to work for longer and longer periods at this intense rate.
Veronique Billat at the University of Lille is the originator of this research and the consequent training protocols. Her running subjects were able to complete anywhere from 15 or 16 intervals up to 24 for one guy, I believe, before they were no longer able to maintain the prescribed speed. When your speed drops below the average speed for your all-out six minute interval, you stop the workout and cool down. What will happen over a period of several weeks is that the number of intervals you're able to complete will go up, indicating your ability to work at VO2 max velocity for a longer period of time. Upon retesting you'll then probably find your vVO2 max itself has increased. Only one of these workouts per week is recommended, followed up perhaps by some hillwork or extensive sub-LT intervals...whatever.
The kind of soul-destroying intervals that LFR describes sharpen race-fitness, particularly where you're racing crits, which involve numerous high speed attacks, followed by an all-out sprint at the end. The vVO2 max workout will improve LT and sustainable speed, and clearance rates. It also has a neural effect, teaching the nervous system and muscles to operate efficiently at high workloads. But it doesn't do much for absolute VO2 max or the ability to attack repeatedly.
|But what are russian intervals on the trainer??? (nm)||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
May 29, 2002 10:16 AM
|WHAT WORKS FOR ME||CARBON110|
May 29, 2002 11:46 AM
|My coach has me do 30 minute intervals at LT once a week. The are hard and have the most effect on my system. I only do two. Other than that, hill sprints,raceing and one group ride is the only time I go over my LT|
|Because your recovery skills and Nutrition is better.||Canidraftyou|
May 29, 2002 11:36 PM
|My guess, as a kid doing track in high school. You have less knowledge in Nutrition. I know that I did when playing football, not the same sport, but loosing your lunch during or after pratice wasnt rare.
What you all think?
|re: intervals that make you puke?||empacher6seat|
Jun 1, 2002 6:16 PM
|I love intervals for what they do to me (fitness wise) but hate them for what they do to me (pain wise). I've only skimmed the surface of intervals with cycling but have done some HARD-core intervals in other sports. Last summer after doing a whole lot of base work for rowing, it seemed like our crews fitness kind of levelled off and our workouts would be longer and longer and the benifits would be less and less. Then we started doing hard intervals and the gains were HUGE! Of course, they came with around a 50% chance of puking or dying or crying for your mommy.|| |