|What supplements are you taking?||Americano Cyclepop|
May 25, 2002 7:12 AM
|EPO or nothing...||terzo rene|
May 25, 2002 8:06 AM
|It's the only thing that really has an indisputable positive large magnitude effect on performance in endurance sports. If you're not going to take that then save your money and ride your bike instead of trying to buy performance in a bottle.|
May 25, 2002 2:19 PM
|I always say if it really had a significant, measurable effect it wouldn't be called a supplement it would be called a drug.|
|I go to my dentist for coke. nm||thatsmybush|
May 27, 2002 2:04 PM
|Supplements are the best way||Kerry|
May 25, 2002 6:21 PM
|to separate a fool from his/her money. If you're an active cyclist, you'll need to consume an extra 500-1000 calories per day. This makes it incredibly easy to get proper nutrition. Supplements have never been shown in worthwhile scientific studies to add anything to proper nutrition. Worthwhile scientific studies means double blind, controled, with a large enough N to be statisically meaningful, and published in a peer reviewed journal. Sorry mate.|
|Kerry, Kerry , Kerry||LeGrimper|
May 25, 2002 8:56 PM
|So then, what about glucose in the drinks bottle?
Anto-oxidents? Vit E, Vit C?
Protein and carbs after a workout?
All reviewed as double blind, controlled studies with a large enough sample to be statistically meaningful, and published in a peer-reviewed journals. Big long list.
Kerry, you must be some awesome Cat 1 rider or super-coach to not realise the benefits of these cheep and effective supplements.
Can we get some details of your trials and experiences with these dud supplements?
|Kerry must be a farmer||speedisgood|
May 26, 2002 5:22 AM
|and he grows his own crops, guaranteeing their freshness and full nutritional potency. He must also eat everything according to the RDA recommendations, every day. Unfortunately for me, I work for a living and I don't have access to the perfect foods and I generally can't eat just whenever I want. I use supplements to supplement my diet so I can ensure I get the needed calories, protein, vitamins, and minerals.
I'm 165#, so common nutritional advice is to get 1.5-2.0 g protein/kg body weight. That's around 74 kg, which means around 110 to 150 grams of protein per day. A typical chicken breast is 30 g or so. That's at least 3 chicken breasts a day, plus other calories from good protein sources to finish it off. Who can do that without supplements? Bodybuilders sure as hell don't, unless they're pros and all they do is lift and eat.
Oh, and that's not even including the bushel of greens and veggies everyday to get iron and other minerals, too.
|You guys misunderstand me||Kerry|
May 26, 2002 4:19 PM
|I wouldn't consider an energy drink a supplement. I assume this guy is talking about the many high priced "supplement pills" and other concoctions.
Regards anti-oxidants, it is easy to get both C (in fruit, juice, and vegetables) and E (nuts are a good source) in the context of a pretty normal diet.
Protein and carbs after a workout? Sounds like nuts, cheese, chicken, a lean roast beef sandwich, a bagel, etc. I wouldn't consider any of this a stretch for a normal diet. Of course they work (along with C and E) but I just don't think you need to take supplements to accomplish this.
Again, my point is that compared to normal food, supplements don't offer anything. They can be used to replace food, at a considerable increase in cost, but when compared to the same amount of a given thing from food (protein, carb, E, C, etc.) supplements don't show advantages. Since many of the supplement products don't have the complexity of the same nutrients from natural sources, there is possibly some reduction in effectiveness when using supplements vs. food.
A cup of yogurt with lunch has 9-10 gm of protein, and my daily bowl of cereal with milk (plus 1/3 cup powdered milk) has 40. That's 50 right there without any other protein source in the day. It's pretty easy to hit my 135 gm (0.75 gm per lb. of body weight) target. Just Grape Nuts for breakfast (a lightly fortified cereal) gives you 1/3 of the daily requirements of a whole bunch of things, and over 100% of your iron needs. And so far, I haven't had lunch or dinner. I think if you read the labels or look in a nutrition book you'll see that it is not hard to get everything you need from eating food.
I'd suggest reading Nancy Clark's Sports Nutrition Guidebook or Food For Sport (Smith). These books point out how easy it is to get all the nutrition you need from food.
|Optimum is what we need.||LeGrimper|
May 26, 2002 11:24 PM
|Optimum Sports Nutrition by Colgan is probably THE book to read, he says the opposite, you CAN NOT get it in the NECESSARY amounts from just food.
Modern food and veg is grown in depleted soil and does not contain the RDA let alone what an athlete needs. The RDA is considered dead as far as athletes are concerned. A myth long since gone.
Your system is overloaded with toxins from hard efforts and racing (we are on the racing page here) and your system needs to be de-toxed and protected.
I'm talking 800mg vit E, 2000mg vit C plus a few other bits. Is it available in food in these quantities?
Protein and Carbs? In a correct ratio? to optimise glycogen? How much roast beef, cheese and bagel is that?
Really if you want OPTIMIM to make the most of your free time, training and racing then there isnt really an option. You really only have to look to the pros to see what they do. Economics ensure they do what is optimum, as there is BIG money on the line.
They are not eating mountains of food to get their 7000 cals. Shakes, drips, pills plus food often liquified.
I agree a lot of supplements are bogus but a bit of moderation and informed thought can bring better results than just food alone.
Kerry, I like what you write, it brings us back down to earth after we all get carried away with our dreams but hell, McDonalds is food and I wouldnt feed that to even you!
|Feed me then!||speedisgood|
May 27, 2002 4:18 AM
|But I like Burger King best :P|
|Actually, Colgan has his critics||Kerry|
May 27, 2002 5:48 PM
|Among the professional nutritionist world, and among sports nutritionists, Colgan is considered something of a "fringe" thinker. I don't know that he is wrong, but many of his claims are just that.|
May 25, 2002 7:01 PM
|has worked OK. I used to do bodybuilding, and used supplements. they did work - nothing spectacular, but they worked.
this whole 'supplements don't work' thing is so retro-grouch ;)
|Supplements dont make fat men fast!||Canidraftyou|
May 26, 2002 5:08 AM
|Supplements are just that, an enhancer. It help bring your performance at a higher level. I take Endurox R4, don't waste your money on the Accelerade sports drink that is suggested with Endurox, I did and its crap! I also take Revenge made by Champion Nutrition. This is one of the best products out on the market since "Ultimate Orange" which can not be found anymore. Leason on the Supplements. Before one can Maximize their performance by Supplementation, one should already be in great physical condition. Ultimate Orange is a great leason in this, its been "outlawed" in every sport because a few people who had little conditioning was wanting to bring up their performance. They must of read in the dictionary where it says supplements "Offset your deficiency". Use supplements for enhancement, dont take it to make yourself into something your not. Supplements make a good rider into a real good rider, not a GREAT RIDER! "Supplements dont make fat men fast, they just think their going fast. Listen to your body, thats the art of Conditioning. If your not able to listen to your body then averything you have achieved is artificial.
Im not the authority on this subject, its only my thoughts on it.
|I thought Ultimate Orange||speedisgood|
May 26, 2002 5:28 AM
|was a form of the ECA (ephedrine, caffeine, aspirin) stack? People were drinking it like Gatorade and were getting wired out of the bejezus belt. Don't take this stuff if you have heart problems!|
|you are correct||weiwentg|
May 26, 2002 6:05 AM
|Ultimate Orange contained ephedrine.|
|Simply illustrating the value of Supplements that work and dont!||Canidraftyou|
May 26, 2002 1:47 PM
|I know the "Ingredients" in Ultimate Orange. If any one needs them I can share them with you.
*Ephedrine, in this drink comes by way of the "Ma Huang" and "Sida Cordifolia" both HERBS! At 25mg per serving. Its suggested that one should not take more than 100mg. in a day.
*Caffeine, in this drink is equivalent to "2 cups of Coffee".
*Aspirine, who dont take an Aspirine from time to time.
For you that have no knowledge of this product "DONT TAKE IT or QUIZ OTHERS".
One more thing, this drink we're refering to also has 300mg of Magnesium and 170mg of Potassium. Ask the wrong person and they'll tell you its also bad for you. Hell, lets stop riding, what if a car hits us.
"Like all things in life, there is a risk, finding the correct path is not always easy. Sometime you have to take chances and walk by yourself. If your afraid of the dark, then stay in the light." Q, Me
|re: What supplements are you taking?||brider|
May 28, 2002 9:37 AM
|Well, to actually ANSWER the question that was asked (sounded a little like an informal poll to me), I'll give the highlights of the long list that is my supplement regimen. |
* a full spectrum of vitamins
* glucosamine (1500 mg /day)
* saw palmetto
* proein shake (two per day)
* Vitex (5 weeks on, two off in a 5 days a week "on" phase)
* echiinacea (occassionally)
* occassional cycle of thyroid support formula (non-suppressive)
* powdered alfalfa (ac-d/base balance)
* salmon/flax oil
|That's a solid list||Alex-in-Evanston|
May 29, 2002 10:11 AM
|I'm not familiar with Vitex, but the rest of the list is solid. I don't think there's a product up there without published 1,000+ subject testing. I've been particularly impressed with the glucosamine and saw palmetto studies. Old guys are getting quite a bit of help these days ;-)
Side point - For professional reasons, I'd be curious to know if you ever take note of the extraction method used to produce the extracts you take.
Thanks and regards,
|Some info in reply||brider|
May 29, 2002 10:26 AM
|Vitex -- Actual name is vitex agnus-castus. Usually marketed as a "women's supplement." What it does is help block the aromitazation process (the natural conversion of testosterone to estrogen). I'm not on any steroids (the group that is usually concerned with this), but I figure it's cheap, I'm on a fairly conservative dosing scheme, and the effects will be mild. I do see some results (increased skin oils and some acne, a little aggressiveness). The Vitex I use is Soloray, 400 mg per capsule (I take one a day on a 5 on/2 off scheme). |
As for the "extraction methods", I'm not all that privy to the actual processes, but I trust the company. Their vitamin supplements are all plant based, organically grown (down to "bug warfare" for pest control), and pharmaceutically processed. The company is NutriLite (yeah, it was a division of the Amway Corporation -- now Access Business Group), and you can go to their site directly. As for their integrity -- I can only lean on the ConsumerLab.com site, which basically tests products to see if what is stated on the label is actually in the pill. NutriLite supplements have always passed their inspections.
Hope that answers your questions.
|cortisone and steroids||Mr Good|
May 30, 2002 9:08 AM
|Slightly off topic, but:
I am extremely allergic to poison oak, and I got a horrible dose of it all over my body, my face, my groin (after hiking in the woods). The pain and swelling was so intense I had to go to the emergency room. To stop the swelling, the doc gave me big injections of cortizine and steroids, then gave me the same in pill form to take orally for the rest of the week.
While on those drugs I slept for a max of two hours a night, for a week, and I rode like a demon--faster and farther than before. I did two races that week, and after each race I went out for extra training miles because I wasn't tired! I didn't really expect the drugs to have any effect on my riding (I don't think there was a placebo effect).
After I finished the pills, I "crashed" hard--slept for a couuple of days.
I suspect if I could have gotten adequate sleep, and continued training on those drugs (and eating good food, etc), I would have seen some serious performance enhancement. We'll never know, because I don't intend to make myself into a pharmaceutical giunea pig!
|Are you sure it wasn't epenephrine?||mtber|
May 30, 2002 12:23 PM
|Emergency room docs will often give an epenephrine shot for generalized allergic reaction for fear that swelling might effect your respiratory system. This really amps you up and is usually followed by a big crash (ie sleep for 15hrs). Usually you don't stay amped for days, however.|
|Are you sure it wasn't epenephrine?||Mr Good|
May 30, 2002 2:44 PM
|I'm not sure about the shots I got in the emergency room, but I was taking oral steroids and cortisone for the rest of the week. (I didn't save the bottle or else I'd tell you exactly what it was)
I can't explain the inability to sleep, or the extra energy--which sounds like stimulants--but that's what happened and I was riding great. The cortizone is a powerful anti-inflammitory, which I'm sure was preventing me from feeling muscle soreness so I could just keep on working. I don't know what effect steroids could have within a weeks time, so my story is just an interesting anecdote. But if riders on a serious controlled drug regimen use these drugs to increase performance, my experience suggests such a rider would have a huge unfair advantage.
|cortisone and steroids||yammi|
Jun 2, 2002 1:27 PM
|i'm new to bike racing, my backgruond is in trail /mountain ultrarunning. 3 of the last 4 years i have also been treated with oral prednisone steroids for poison ivy and have also "reaped"the benefits in training.during that week i ran stronger and further with much less recovery time needed.i also felt like i was psychotic from the pills so i couldn't get off the stuff quick enough.just my own observation.|| |