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2 rides a day question(8 posts)

2 rides a day questionGall
Apr 25, 2002 5:21 PM
hello again,

if i would ride to a location that takes 30-45 mins ride and then spend the day and then ride back the 30-45 mins would that be the same as riding 60 to 90 at the same time?

if not what are the main differences?
re: 2 rides a day questionniteschaos
Apr 26, 2002 3:24 AM
no. It'd be like doing only 10 pushups at a time until you reach 100. It would be much harder to just get down and do that 100 straight. You really need to do at least 90 minutes of steady state at a time to get the cardio advantage that it offers.
There was a recent study done on this.allervite
Apr 26, 2002 8:51 AM
Some trainiers used to claim that double days actually added more benefit than one long ride. It was a theory of 1 + 1 = 3 instead of 1 + 1 = 2.

The study I recently read (sorry I don't remember the source claimed that it is a 1 + 1 equals 2.

I think the poster above has a point that if the work intervals are too short, the cardio benefit would decrease. However, I believe that if the work intervals are at least 20 minutes long, the 1 + 1 = 2 formula is justified. I base this on studies I have read that say, "for an interval to have a purely aerobic benefit it must be 20 minutes long."
There was a recent study done on this.Wayne
Apr 26, 2002 9:09 AM
Yes, 20 minutes is the accepted minimum time for getting some of the cardiovascular benefits associated with endurance exercise. As far as 1+1 = 2 or only 1.5 or 3 I think it depends on what your looking at, VO2max, Time to fatigue at various intensity levels, etc. There was also a recent study published that showed that 1 + 1 = 2.5 or more if your looking at recovery and adaptation. For example, your better off doing 2 hours with 6, 4 minute LT intervals once a day, rather than 2 one hour sessions with 3, 4M LT intervals. Simply because the time for recovery wasn't enough between sessions which lead to decreased adaptation. I think the take home message of the study was if your going to be riding twice a day only one should be hard and the other should be a recovery ride.
One thing I don't get. . .allervite
Apr 26, 2002 12:55 PM
They say there is not enough time for adaptation if you do 3, four minute itervals one hour; then rest for four hours then do another 3, four minute intervals in an hour.

But, there is enough time for adaption if you do them one after another in two hours time. I don't get that logic.

I can see how the four hour rest in the former example is too brief to give a benefit, but I do not see how it would be a detriment.
I think...Wayne
Apr 26, 2002 1:17 PM
that it probably has something to do with protein synthesis rates. It's much easier to understand with something like weightlifting, where the adaptation is bigger muscles rather than endurance exercise where the adaptation is a stronger heart and increased muscular enzymes for glycolytic and oxidative metabolism (amongst others). Basically the exercise, at some level, is damaging or at least stimulating the body, and it needs time to recover/adapt by making more proteins. You adapt to exercise during recovery not during the actual exercise. Additionally for endurance exercise glycogen resynthesis is important and maybe two-a-days that largely deplete glycogen stores (harder/longer efforts) don't allow sufficient time for these to recover. It just comes down to interupting the recovery process which is when the adaptation is taking place.
I can buy that. . .allervite
Apr 26, 2002 3:21 PM
I have always thought that once you stop, your body goes into repair mode; and the longer you stop, the deeper your body goes into repair mode. Also, the deeper your body goes into repair mode, the slower you get.

This is all anecdotal, but I believe this is why after a very hard race, if you do not ride the next day (active rest) your form goes to hell. I seem very suceptible to this phenomena. If I don't incorporate active rest into my hard weeks, I loose all my snap, power, and speed. I can still ride a long ways, but not quickly. It's as though my anaerobic system just hangs a sign on the door and shuts down for major renovations. Even worse, once I am fully rested I have to start over almost from scratch.

I hear these stories of guys doing a stage race or some sort of death ride, taking 3 days off and coming back stronger. This has never worked for me. If I do a few days of easy rides with some brief jumps and some leg speed drills then I am good to go.
I'm the oppositeVeloflash
Apr 28, 2002 12:51 PM
The more inactive rest, not exceeding two days, the better I adapt. It is not coincidental that elite riders prior to their most important event reduce their training considerably over a minimum of four days to freshen the body and allow the adaptions to complete.

If you read training regimes of top athletic sprinters and track endurance adn sprint cyclists they train three times a day. The early morning and late afternoon sessions are only preparation and recovery for the main session during the day. With this regime they can train maximally more often.