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is this right or is it a typo?(12 posts)

is this right or is it a typo?Gall
Apr 18, 2002 6:38 AM
hello,

i found this on a web site. i am not going to name the site because i dont want to prick anyone if it is a mistake

"Preparing for shorter time trials should incorporate three to four 8- to 10-minute intervals ridden 10 to 15 beats above your lactate threshold."

is this right... just seems too long to be above your LT. maybe i am wrong though... been there before :-)

thanks
sounds reasonablejw25
Apr 18, 2002 6:53 AM
Remember, you're lactate threshold is the point where you start accumulating lactic acid in your muscles (i.e. the level of exertion where your body can't flush it fast enough), NOT the point where you "feel the burn".
I've seen a few methods to determine this point, but, of course, the books are at home right now.
10-15 beats over this level should be sustainable for 10 minutes, but it will burn. For a TT, that's the point - getting your legs used to functioning efficiently with lactate buildup.
For me, LT stays around 86%, but I can do 5 minute seated climbs at 96% of max. HR. I'm an expert MTB racer, though, and I like time trials, so I've got a few seasons of adaptation in me.
sounds reasonableRIAN
Apr 18, 2002 7:44 AM
There is a lot of confusion about exactly where this zone is. It's supposed to be the point where the ability to clear lactate is just beginning to be overtaken by its production. This causes a cumulative build-up and resultant pain. Well trained cyclists have a higher lactate tolerance than beginners, and a zone of 90-95% MHR can be too hard for some and just right for others. It can also vary a bit from day to day according to state of rest, health, body temperature etc. The main thing is to do the intervals at or a little above your best short TT effort, with the feeling that another minute past the end of the interval would be impossible. I am not sure whether 2 or 3 x ten minutes is better than 4 or 5 x five minutes, but I do know that they work, and they hurt! You need to be well rested to do them properly.
sounds reasonableJon Billheimer
Apr 18, 2002 9:11 AM
Those intervals sound way too long to me. By the end of them you'd be cooked for racing. Most warmup protocols call for 1 to 2 or 3 x 1 min to 90 sec intervals at that intensity to finish off a warmup. The idea of briefly accelerating well over LT pace is to trigger the body's buffering mechanisms, not to achieve a training effect.
sounds reasonableRIAN
Apr 18, 2002 11:05 PM
I agree that these intervals are not suitable for a warm-up - that's not how I interpreted 'preparing for'. Four or five days before a race is near enough.
re: is this right or is it a typo?RockyMountainRacer
Apr 18, 2002 9:21 AM
I think this is too intense and most likely a typo:

"3 to 4 8 to 10 minute intervals ridden 10 to 15 beats above your lactate threshold"

The reason I think that this is incorrect is that most racers have developed a high lactate threshold relative to their max heart rate through all the training and racing they have already done. I know that for me, 10 to 15 beats above my lactate threshold is very close to my absolute max heart rate. Therefore, riding 1 8 to 10 minute interval (not to mention 3 or 4) at or very close to my max seems quite stupid and suicidal to success on race day. 10 to 15 beats over lactate threshold is definitely an almost entirely anaerobic zone for me, and likely for everyone. The longest anaerobic interval I will do is 4 minutes, and I greatly prefer 3 minute efforts. This kind of interval is also for VO2 max training and not lactate threshold training. Also, as I'm sure most of you know, these tear your legs up pretty good and should only be done once a week at most if you are in a race phase and want to be reasonably fresh for race day.
i don't think this is intended as a warm-upup_hiller
Apr 18, 2002 10:18 AM
I agree, to do this pre-race would be suicidal. I read it as a way to TRAIN for short time trials.
i don't think this is intended as a warm-upRockyMountainRacer
Apr 18, 2002 11:42 AM
I didn't say do it the day before a race! What I'm saying is that doing that workout is going to tear the hell out of your legs. Even if you do it on Wednesday you're still going to be sore for a race on Saturday.

Now the reason I say that is because I think the workout is anaerobic, and I have never heard of anyone doing "3 to 4 8 to 10 minute" anaerobic intervals! The distinction I'm making here is between anaerobic intervals and aerobic intervals. Lactate threshold is the point where lactic acid begins to accumulate in the blood beyond the body's ability to clear it right? Lactic acid is the by-product of anaerobic respiration, not aerobic respiration. Therefore, if you do an interval effort that is "10 to 12 beats per minute over your lactate threshold" you are primarily anaerobic right? Now the reason I dispute the validity of the original workout is because I have never heard of any racer doing anaerobic intervals of that duration. If the workout was done at LT, it would make perfect sense. But the description is of several anaerobic intervals done at a very long duration which does not make sense. As I said before, the longest duration I have heard or read of racers using is 4-5 minutes.

Having said all that, I hope you do 2 such workouts during the week (and one for a warm-up) and then come line up next to me at a mountain bike race so I can tear your legs off! :)
sorry, misunderstood what you were saying.up_hiller
Apr 19, 2002 5:15 AM
I fully agree, though, this would still be one HELL of a workout. it would take some kinda will power (and tolerance for pain) to keep pumping at that effort for that length of time. this one would probably be best left for weeks without a race or the off-season. sounds like it would be best for strength-building to me.

I can assure you I won't be doing any 10-minute anearobic intervals any time soon!
Another way to view ATRideLots
Apr 18, 2002 3:15 PM
I've also heard anaerobic threshold defined at the maximum average heart rate you can sustain for an hour. So, you should be able to sustain higher than that for 8 to 10 minutes. Sounds reasonable. It would be a very hard workout, though.
5 - 10 beats NOT 10 -15Ping_Pong
Apr 22, 2002 1:41 AM
For a highly trained rider, Max 200, LT 180, a few 8 minute intervals at 185 -190 would be possible. Punishing and very draining, but would be good training for the later stages of a 10. You might need a weeks recovery !
Also:Ping_Pong
Apr 22, 2002 1:50 AM
Some TT friends I know ride their intervals at specific power levels. At a specified power heart rate might increse to 10 -15 beats over only at the end of the interval.

One thing is for sure - to start a ten minute interval at 15 beats over LT would be hell on earth.