|Intentionally Crashing someone out.||mixinbeatz|
Apr 16, 2002 11:15 AM
|Let me first say that I have never done this to anyone nor do I think it is good race behavior. But having said that, I was riding a crit this past weekend, and on like the 8th lap I was accelerating on the someones wheel, and this dude came and bumped me pretty hard off the guys wheel. I am pretty used to getting bumped around, but this guy put his body into it like we were playing football and nudged with his shoulder. I kept the bike up and ended up returning the favor, and told him that that kind of shit will get him ridden into the curb. I was pretty heated and ended up taking the wheel in front anyhow. Incidentally the next lap, someone crashed him out and my girlfriend heard him complaining to the judges. This guy has caused problems at one other race this year and has a generally bad attitude. My question is, have you ever intentionally taken out someones front wheel? Have any of you duked it out in the parking lot after a problem on the road? I am just curious to hear some good stories!|
|re: Intentionally Crashing someone out.||eschelon|
Apr 16, 2002 11:22 AM
|I haven't yet. Some dude pushed himself in between a rider and myself and rubbed me hard. Alot of time has passed now and I am definitely going to start some sh*t this year if anyone gets aggressive with me.
That guy deserves to be ridden off into the curb...short of the pump into the spokes thing.
|holy cow, guys, you can't do that!||RideLots|
Apr 16, 2002 11:53 AM
|I understand the sentiment, but you can't go around "taking people out." People could get killed that way. You could spend your life in jail.
Handle things the right way. Get some witnesses and make an official complaint. Yell at the guy after the race. Frontier or vigilante justice will probably backfire in some form or another.
|happens all the time...||merckx56|
Apr 16, 2002 12:30 PM
|I have taken people into the grass or close to the curb before. it's never out of sheer a'holeness, but in retaliation for a prior move. i have been involved in shouting and shoving matches after races too! i don't condone this type of behavior but will have words with someone i thought was in the wrong. people like the dude in your race will have bad cycling karma follow them! in a crit about 4 years ago, a guy was yelling at everyone in the race about holding lines and ended up taking out about 9 people when he turned around to yell at someone behind him. the county deputies took him off for disturbing the peace! he was cursing, at the officials, around kids and parents who were just there to watch! it was beautiful! we all shot him the bird as he rode off in the cop car with his bike hanging from the trunk!
if you ever have to yell at someone, have a backup who saw everything. personally, i've found that a headbutt to the kidney works well when someone tries to push you off a wheel. it's an old track move!
|with respect to RideLots comment||lonefrontranger|
Apr 16, 2002 6:20 PM
|You CAN'T do that, no matter how much you dearly wish to and how much the instigator richly deserves it. Not only is it illegal and highly unsportsmanlike, in addition to all the other penalties Doug mentioned, this is the one thing you can do that will get your license yanked faster than you can say "assault and battery".
However, I have seen any number of fistfights in the parking lot after races, and one of the Cat 1 guys I used to ride with related this story:
Back in the mid-90s, a well-known Midwest regional elite Masters rider had, for lack of a better description, a reputation for mayhem. He was a big burly track sprinter type, well known by many of his peers to be guilty of all sorts of cheat methods; things like sitting out laps in crits, pulling jerseys in sprints, cutting courses and numerous other unsportsmanlike behaviors. He was also an expert at putting people over the curb, and an expert at never getting caught at any of this stuff. His favorite quote when confronted by his victims was "that's bike racing".
In one particular event, he cut off my buddy and pushed him over towards some road furniture, leaving him no recourse but to slam on the brakes to avoid going over the curb - which meant he got gapped, which was the entire point of this exercise. My friend happens to be a slightly built climber type, maybe 130 lbs wringing wet. He is also a pro MTB racer and a superb bike handler. Enraged, my friend sprinted back into the field, rode up next to this creep and said "If you EVER try something like that again, I'm going to let go of my handlebars and tackle your ass... I don't care what happens to me or anyone else behind us, but you are going down you &*$@#.
I never heard that the bully ever hassled my buddy again.
|threats of going berserk||RideLots|
Apr 17, 2002 6:23 AM
|The idea of someone going absolutely berserk has to be a little mellowing. Yes, the threat may not be a bad idea.|
|This is what happens!||LC|
Apr 16, 2002 8:44 PM
|This is what happens!||eschelon|
Apr 17, 2002 5:41 AM
|This is the funniest clip I have seen in a long time. Europeans are definitely not as bad as everyone makes them out to be.|
|Does it get better||fastfinish|
Apr 17, 2002 6:20 AM
|Can anyone tell me if Crit riders get any better as they move up in Cat. I havn't seen anyone intensionly hurt anyone yet but in 4 & 5 races just the lack of skill and concern for others well being seem to an issue. I am 4 soon to be 3 that has mostly focused on road racing. Reason being that I'm not very big, 130lbs, and get pushed around pretty easily in a crit. As a 4 & 5 I only raced crits to complete a win or high placeing in an Omnium and found them to be full of riders in over-their-head, with no concern for others safty, and really just a crash fest.|
|I think you hit a key point||James Curry|
Apr 17, 2002 6:29 AM
|When strength diminishes, form shortly follows. Part of good form on the bike is edicate! Good form will save your ass during a grueling climb or bad headwind. On the other hand, I beleive that people who show bad form and poor edicate are simply making up for what they lack in strength!
Don't give squirrels the pleasure of your discontent-they'll get their own from another squirrel, or a pothole.
Just pray your around to watch when they go down!!!
|Does it get better||Troyboy|
Apr 17, 2002 11:11 AM
|Well, I'm not sure where you're racing, but throughout all the cat 4 and 5 races I've done, there were very few crashes due to rider error. Lots of near misses sure, but the lower cats here in SoCal are far from *crash-fests*. Lots of people get cut off for not being as aggressive as others and there is lots of wheel rubbing and general bumping, but that's about it. Matter of fact, in all the cat 5 races I'd done, I can only remember one crash that took out others due to something other than a broken chain, flat, rolled tire, etc. One rider took too tight a line into the turn and couldn't hold it on the way out. Swept about 3 guys down. No injuries.
What you'll find is more team tactics. Heck, you'll see some stupid stuff due to good skill. For example, I remember some guy hop his bike up a curb in order to gain an inside line on a turn.
|SoCal is where I need to be!!!||fastfinish|
Apr 17, 2002 12:00 PM
|If it's that much better in SoCal I should consider moving! I'm in the SouthEast and out of the five times I raced 5's (RR or Crit) I don't think I ever saw an event without rider error or carelessness causing a pile up. And now that I'm done with 4's after 10 races it was pretty much the same. If fact this weekend in South Carolina the Cat.4 crit had quite a few accidents(Although the course was a little wet from some showers, I watched like a chicken, but afterwards many thought I was the guy to listen to.)and then in the RR on Sunday we even had a bad accident on the road due to people not being more careful. Maybe the teams in 3 will help make the races a little safer.|
|SoCal is where I need to be!!!||Troyboy|
Apr 17, 2002 1:34 PM
|Watch now that I've said that, things turn to crash-fests. Please don't get me wrong, there seems to be a crash in ever other race, just not due to bozoness. And yes, it is every man for himself. My motto is ride aggressively and stay upright at other's expense! I recently saw a pretty nasty crash right in the middle of a huge mens 3 crash. I think somebody broke a chain. Bodies were a flyin'...|
|Was that the come see me Crit and RR?||James Curry|
Apr 18, 2002 6:24 AM
|I saw that wreck on that tight turn up on top of the hill. I don't think it was THAT bad of a wreck because it was an eager guy trying to hold his line in a tight turn during a Prime Lap!!! There's nothing wrong with going for it and falling! Sure he took another guy out, but no one got hurt bad, it was raining-hell that could have happened to anyone!
It was not an intentional act! You should have raced the 5's that day, and the next!!! That was frustrating to say the least. #545 everybody picked up on really quick to be the squirrel!
See here's what went down! He was blocked by two riders going up the hill on like the 3rd lap! They were riding about a foot apart, maybe 1.5 feeet, enough to stay nerve-free. We were ALL cruising the hill at a reasonable pace and there was no prime called, yet this guy, "545", felt it EXTREMELY necessary to move up, LIKE RIGHT NOW!
So what does he do. He leans forward and Sprints right in between the two guys knocking their handlebars with his thighs as he passed! We all almost wrecked and immediately started cussing him out!
We all recovered fine, brakes and nerves and all, but what he did stuck with him! Throughout the end of the race, and the following road race, everybody was talking smack to him, nobody worked with him, nobody got anywhere near to him.
He probably was the culpret during the RR the next day to the one crash that occured going up a hill at like 15 mph, or less!!! Gapped half of the field, including myself!
Bad Form! I think though, again, that bad form and aggression is an attempt to make up for strength one lacks. This guy won't last half of the season, whether he's on a team or not-most likely not! He will never win any races, because he won't work in a break, because he can't.
|I'm not familiar with that race.||Troyboy|
Apr 18, 2002 6:51 AM
|This was a SoCal race. The Glendale Crit. Could have been the LA Circuit. I can't remember....|
|no, not you, fastfinish!!!||James Curry|
Apr 18, 2002 7:21 AM
|Was that the come see me Crit and RR?||Thoth2|
Apr 18, 2002 12:06 PM
|The come see me crit sucked. I was in the 4's and the field size was somewhere near 100. That's too big for that tight,
narrow course. Maybe 70 should have been the limit, then it would have been a fun race. W/ 3 laps to go dude fell over and broke his collar bone, but I think that was a function of the field size compared to the course - everybody's trying to move up, but there's not room. Somebody blows up in front of you when you're winding up, and there's no place to go. Boom. There was some aggressive riding in my field, I think some of it was uncalled for, but not as bad as I've seen before. I think most of it was a function of the too-big field and the narrow course. Anyway, the best way to take care of a s%&thead rider is to watch out for him, take down his number, and report him to the race official. Enough times doing that and he gets branded.
|I'm not so sure?||JS|
Apr 22, 2002 2:25 PM
|I started as a 5 last year in So Cal. and had some hair raising moments in crit's culminating in the biggest crashfest ever at the first Ontario Ca. crit this year. Luckily I moved up to 3's and it is a lttle better. In fact did a 3's road race this weekend with a full field on a tiny road and never once felt like someone was a spaz and gonna crash me out, a nice feeling.|
|re: Intentionally Crashing someone out.||brider|
Apr 17, 2002 7:28 AM
|There are definitely ways to get the mesage across without coming to blows or riding some one into the curb. I've bumped people and ridden them to the centerline (centerline rule in effect) and generally made them feel nervous about their tactics. Not that I'm an angry guy or anything -- hey, I'm smiling the whole time I'm doing this! But people tend to lose their heads in races. I know of one guy who caused a lot of crashes, not intentionally, but he just rode aggressively and didn't always have a lot of regard for others in a sprint. Well, he's dead now (just a week or so ago) from injuries sustained in a bike crash. I don't know the circumstances around the incident, so I'm not going to say anything as to who caused it. I'm sure he was in the mix, though, and probably doing well in the sprint. As for some one bumping you off a wheel, sometimes just a mean look will take care of it. If you have team mates, you can just box them in and kindly escort them to the back of the pack (I've done this as well, and it's just hilarious). But intentionally crashing some one is definitely bad form.|
|he died racing??????||ishmael|
Apr 18, 2002 12:41 PM
|im suprised i didnt here of it..isnt that really rare|
|he died racing??????||brider|
Apr 19, 2002 7:39 AM
|He didn't actually die at the race, but a few days later as a result of the injuries. Joe Hailey is the name, out of Vancouver, B.C. Canada. As much as he was kind of a pain in races, he will be missed. RIP.|
Apr 17, 2002 10:54 AM
|A friend of mine was racing a Kermesse in Belgium when a big burly dutch rider punched him in the kidney. He back handed the guy in the face, and then the guy started talking to him and telling him things like which riders to watch for. Testosterone is a strange drug.
I was off the back in a MTB race when another Pro/Expert came riding quickly up behind me and a Pro/Expert Girl. We were on a narrow side hill single track and he was screaming track. The girl behind me told him that he was going to have to wait until the trail was wider. He said, "Get out of my ####### way or I will Crash you. You ####." She ignored him and he proceeded to crash her, but like the idiot he was, he tried to do it on the downhill side. He crashed off the side of the hill cussing the whole way down. A couple of miles later, he caught back up to us and after cussing her out came up behind me screaming track. We were in a thick forest and the ground was covered in deep pine needles. I swerved off the trail to let him by and hit a stump hidden under the pine needles. We were flying along and the impact sent me airborne right back into the track and right on top of our hero. We went down hard. When we came to a stop, he was cussing me out and quickly jumped up and ordered me to my feet, instructing me that he was gonna kick my ###. I stood up with a big smile on my face and told him to "Go Ahead." He was about 130 lbs. and 5'6" tall. I am no behemoth, but I was quite bigger than he. He jumped back on his bike and told me he would be looking for me at the finish. He must have calmed down because I never saw him again.
Another friend of mine was off the back in a MTB race when a rider came up behind him and rubbed his rear tire. Than he told my friend that his bike was "in love with his bike" and was going to have sex with it. He then started pushing him and swerving into him. This friend is really small, and took off scared for his life. The guy pursued him rubbing his back tire at every chance. My friend headed straight for a big rock and bunny hopped it. His amorous pursuer did not see the rock and took it straight on going over the bars and crashing hard.
|What do you mean you're no behemoth? (nm)||shirt|
Apr 17, 2002 11:12 AM
|He means to say that he is not a big guy (nm)||I Love Shimano|
Apr 17, 2002 9:33 PM
|Payback could be a b!tch||peloton|
Apr 18, 2002 6:05 PM
|I can't believe the mindset of someone who would intentionally crash someone else out. I mean sometimes things happen, but to do that to someone else it pretty low. That said, if you get known for someone who does that sort of thing- it could come back to you in a big way. I had a teammate who was intentionally crashed out in a MTB race sprint for the finish a few years ago by another rider who was known for overly aggressive riding and passing. We knew it to be intentional due to some verbalization by this rider. Three weeks later he tried to pull the same BS with me, and this time he was the one who hit the ground. I can't say that it was my intention to make him go down, but I'm sure I could have tapped the brakes and let him pass. His reputation and the previous incident though made my hold my line. I hope he was as p!ssed as I think he was when I was coasting across the line with my hands in the air and his carcass on the ground.|
|re: Intentionally Crashing someone out.||XCGEEK|
Apr 18, 2002 7:28 PM
|I was in the first road race of the season (in Feb.) and we were coming back along a really rough stretch of road near the end of a race. It was within 10k of the finish and the pace was really ramping up. I was in good position near the front (top 15) when a d*ck from another team cut me off. I was forced into the ditch at 30mph! I kept it up, thank god I race mountain bikes also, but needless to say I was PISSED! I ended up with a top 30 finish out of 135 and 2nd junior and I learned a really good leason.|| |