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Ergogenics(9 posts)

ErgogenicsLeGrimper
Apr 12, 2002 4:54 AM
What with the race season now in full swing, who has used what ergogenics?

Which work, which dont, fly or die.

Personally I have tried Sodium Phosphate and I really rate it boosting LT by around 10 beats in my case. Coffee obviously, is a love and necessity. During the really hot whether (30oC+) here in Australia I have used Glycerol but to no great effect.

Anybody tried any pro strength stuff?

Hey, your flying.

Le Grimp.

Long list below.

Legal Stuff:

Creatine
Glycerol
Sodium Bicarbonate
Glutamine
Hydroxy methyl butyrate (HMB)
Melatonin

Not so Legal:

Anabolic Agents
Androstenedione
Beta Blockers
Blood Doping
Caffeine
Cannabinoids
Citrus Aurentium
Clenbuterol
Clomiphene
Diuretics
Ephedrine
EPO (Erythropoietin)
Glucocorticosteroids
IGF-1
Local Anaesthetics
Nandrolone
Narcotics
Norandrostenedione
Peptide Hormones
Plasma Expanders
Stanozolol
Stimulants
T-E Ratio
Tribestan

Take your pick although if its from the second list maybe you will need to change your ID to maybe Pantani or similar.
Phosphate loadingspeedisgood
Apr 12, 2002 5:17 AM
So what dosage do you use? I've heard anecdotal things about that stuff, but haven't really looked for much research on it either.

I've done creatine, glycerol (for a research project in grad school), caffeine, HMB, that's about it. Um . . . I guess I've taken cannabinoids, but that was PURELY for recreational purposes and not as an ergogenic aid. Not that it would help with biking anyway.

Are andros and tribestan banned now? They're on your list but are they officially banned?. Over here in the Sates I think they're still classified as supplements by the FDA but I don't know about whether sport legislation has banned them.
re: Phosphate loadingLeGrimper
Apr 12, 2002 5:31 AM
There is lots of good info on Phosphate at:

http://www.jbst.com/factsheets/sodium.html

I have a jar of TwinLab (Mail Order from the US) and use 4 caps (4x1gm) a day for three days and take two caps with breakfast on the day of the big race. Not every race, mind, but maybe two or three races a year. It is a noticeable boost which lasts for a few days after also. Seems recovery after these big(ger) efforts is also quicker too.

With regards to andros and tribestan they are on the list in Oz, yep.

But as far as Cannabinoids go, well, I didn't inhale.

Class Act.

Le Grimp.
Phosphate loadingpeloton
Apr 12, 2002 7:58 AM
You'll find andros on the IOC list. A lot of things that are legal as supplements here in the US are banned by the IOC and governing sport bodies. Ask Alain Baxter (GBR) about products on the shelf in the US.
Forgive me Father for I have sinned. (but not during a race)allervite
Apr 12, 2002 8:13 AM
Have tried:

Creatine (Don't think this is legal anymore)
HMB (Ditto)
Sodium Phosphate
Glycerol
Glutamine
Melatonin
Caffeine
Ephedrine (Dangerous Stimulant)
Shark Cartlidge (yea I'm embarassed)
Blue Green Algae
Calcium

What has worked in order of effectiveness:

HMB
Glutamine
Creatine
Glycerol (Super Hydrator)
Caffeine
Calcium

Sodium Phosphate did not do anything for me and I tried it a few different times. We are all different. I would defiantely stay away from ephedrine. Not only does it have serious cardiac damaging side effects. It will most likely cause you to loose a race.
Another perspectiveKerry
Apr 12, 2002 6:25 PM
If you're not competing at a world class level, and getting paid hansomely for it, then using this crap is just another attempt at boosting your ego. Somehow, I can't see the many risks as being any way worth it for what can only be described as self-gratification. Oh, did I mention that there are virtually no effective, controlled studies that show that any of this stuff works? And how about safety? Go ahead, knock yourself out.
Way too harshLeGrimper
Apr 12, 2002 11:40 PM
Hey Kerry

Lighten up.

The second list is banned for a reason, it will damage you, especially if you have free reign. To an extent this is the debate I hoped to open.

The first list is not much more than protein and other natural, over-the-counter stuff. Not much danger there. There is much more real danger of going down is a messy sprint or getting hit by a Volvo while out training.

And I have a long list of studies that DO PROVE that some of the first list IS EFFECTIVE.

While I get your point that you dont care much what anyones does, win loose or draw why would it be different if you are world class?

Le Grimp

P.S. I also use Bill Shook wheels and they are superb! They have it all over my Open Pro trainers or any other wheels you care to mention.

Finally I hope we get to race together one day.
I'd love to see those studiesKerry
Apr 14, 2002 4:18 PM
because I bet that they say this stuff (whatever) is better than NOTHING. IOW, "compared to riders just drinking water, riders drinking XXX lasted 20% longer on the treadmill" etc. Of course the stuff works better than nothing, but how does it work compared to a balanced diet? Given that an active cyclist is consuming at least an extra 1000 calories a day more than a sedentary person, it is very easy to get all the vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, etc. into your diet. Where are the double blind controlled studies that show this stuff is better than a normal diet, eating food while riding, or even better than a placebo? Note that in the US, the FDA is prohibited by law from regulating supplements, so there is no control on safety, content, or effectiveness. Put those controls in place and nearly all of this stuff would disappear.
Read away.LeGrimper
Apr 14, 2002 9:10 PM
OK

You make a good point however, my finding are ON THE BIKE and work for me. The reason I tried them and use them is because

1. They are legal and (as far as we REASONABLY know) harmless
2. They are quoted by reputable sources (Friel, Colgan ) and ARE backed by pages of studies, which have used double blind controlled studies.

As I said before everything is a bit of a risk.

One good friend is a GP (Doctor) and youd be surprise how matter of fact he regards some prescription medicine, steroids (both anabolic and cortico) can be prescribed to Asthmatics for the majority of their life and it doesnt cripple their heath, beyond what they already have. It actually enhances their heath and quality of life. Little or no damage to be done here and this IS NOT over the counter stuff! My first list is LEGAL ergongenics, to which I found your reaction overblown, if Im reading you correctly.

I dare say you are already aware of Friel ISBN 1-884737-71-4 but a read of Colgan and all the back-up material may shed a bit more light on my stance:

OPTIMUM SPORTS NUTRITION Dr. Michael Colgan Advance Research Press
ISBN 0-9624840-5-9

Another point is that I dont find a normal healthy diet to be enough. Vit E, Vit C plus a few other bits are necessary. I doubt 1000 (for instance) extra calories compensate for 5 hours on the bike or a hard race over threshold for much of it. These are not normal stresses, your requirements are therefore not normal.

If you dont want to, fair enough, but so we are clear, what levels of exercise and category of racing are we talking. The needs of an inexperienced Cat 5 or 6 are a little different to that of a consistently racing Cat 1.

In the spirit of debate and without prejudice

Le Grimp.