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aaarghh - try these, they truly suck...(14 posts)

aaarghh - try these, they truly suck...lonefrontranger
Apr 9, 2002 6:48 PM
Tonight I tried a different spin on my usual 30/30 Tuesday night workout. One of my limiters is being able to give that 110% effort when it counts.

Our coach Ann Trombley recommended 8 second jumps. So I combined my 30/30s with 8 second jumps at the end, for the true 110% effort simulation. Holy cow that hurt! 30 second spinups, then on the last 8 seconds (22 seconds of 30), you shift up and go absolutely freaking bugnuts.

3 sets of 3, and my legs are still worked from Sunday's bit of fun. I finished the workout and could barely crawl off the trainer.

Hope everyone else's build phase is going well.
Kilo training still hurts more (nm)jim hubbard
Apr 10, 2002 2:24 AM
yeah, you got me on that one, thank heaven I'm no trackie(nm)lonefrontranger
Apr 10, 2002 5:25 AM
30-30s?Jon Billheimer
Apr 10, 2002 6:36 AM
As in 30 secs. hard, 30 secs. recovery? You're right, they are tough. I can't imagine the last eight seconds. One similar workout that an ex. phys. sadist from France has developed that produces results is to do the 30-30 at VO2 max velocity until you can't do any more! I think some of these lab types resemble Gary Larsen's sadistic little-boy-scientist types.
yeplonefrontranger
Apr 10, 2002 8:13 AM
The old Tuesday night standard. 30 seconds of pure hell with 30 seconds recovery, then start the next one swimming in lactic. I do a lot of these in my early build phase, then transition to doing spinups and power sprints (big gear windups) on the road later in the season.

For the 30/30s, two weeks ago I was up to 4 sets of 5, but I'd just done a pretty hard commute home and am still recovering from the Roubaix, not to mention that this week I'm back at Week 1 on my mesocycle. I probably won't be able to do as many of the 'modified' 30/30s, since they're quite a bit harder.

Tonight I do hill repeats up the climb to NCAR (~1 mile, average 8-9% grade) Thursday night VO2MAX workouts, those really blow. Good idea doing the VO2MAX 30/30s till failure; maybe I'll mix something like that in later on. Totally agree with the Gary Larson reference; my SO calls the (w)rec room with all my trainer goodies in it "Dexter's Lab".
Hey LFR...RockyMountainRacer
Apr 10, 2002 12:00 PM
How do you do so much intensity without killing yourself? Just seems to me like 3 days of intensity in a row, then racing on the weekend is a little much...it would definitely overtrain me...then again you are probably some kind of cyborg anyway!
lotsa baselonefrontranger
Apr 10, 2002 2:33 PM
I have roughly 1,650 base miles in since I got back on the bike in November (after breaking my ankle). This includes commuter and trainer miles, since base is base. I also have a lot of 'depth' of fitness to pull from, since I've been racing for the past ten seasons. Don't kid yourself about the importance of this kind of deep fitness - someone who's only been racing for a year or two will probably not be able to tolerate as intense a training schedule as someone who's been doing this for five or more years. My teammate who's only been racing 2 seasons got seriously sick (mono) from trying to bump the intensity too high, too soon. This will be frustrating, but I'll repeat my favorite maxim here: It takes 5 years to make a bike racer.

I also listen to my body a lot. If I get to feeling like BipedZed mentioned in the above thread, I don't ride at all for 2-3 days. Period.

I think the key is that when I ride slow for recovery I REALLY ride slow. Most people don't know how slow 'slow' truly is, but a few years ago I had the benefit of training with a pair of Cat I/Pro guys who summered in Europe to teach me the true meaning of slow.

I also take Mondays and Fridays completely off. If I ride at all on these days, I will only do a 12mph average MUT trail ride to spin my legs out from being stiff.
Base questionRockyMountainRacer
Apr 11, 2002 7:19 AM
Sorry to keep picking your brain LFR, but I have another question (anyone else with answers please jump right in). My question is: Does "base" fitness from other sports translate over into biking? The more I read about training (and do it!), the more the argument for lots of base miles in the legs makes sense.

I have tons of running fitness coming into this sport, but I've only been riding for the last 3 years. Untill the last year and a half it was also only short mtb miles used as fun cross training for my primary sport which was lacrosse. Training the legs for that sport consists of running, running, and more running (and some weights as well). So when this race season is over, should I just start doing as many miles on my bike as I can stand? Or should I get a cross bike??!!

Another base observation: I've noticed that despite the fact I hardly run anymore, I can still sprint all out running for longer and with less pain than on the bike. Is this due to the fitness base I have with specificity of training in running?
on aerobic fitness, muscle memory and efficiencylonefrontranger
Apr 11, 2002 10:01 AM
You are a runner, probably a 'natural' at it, therefore you are efficient at running, and inefficent at cycling. I'm more of a 'natural' cyclist, or at least have a lot of muscle memory and efficiency built into my body after so many years. I am NOT a natural runner, and very inefficent at it, therefore running as cross-training is excellent at helping keep my weight down and improve my endurance and aerobic capacity. It also sucks, hurts and is boring as all getout. I wasn't able to do much running cross-training over the winter because the combo of cold and pounding just hurt my bad ankle too much.

Your aerobic fitness from running will definitely count towards base and help your cycling endurance a lot. But it won't help you at all with the high intensity demands of racing or the specific muscle memory of cycling. For that, you have to have saddle time. This is why most cyclists who run a lot as cross-training for cycling taper their running to only once or twice a week during the season, and none at all while they're peaking.

When racing season is over, here are some suggestions. IMO it's best to take a month completely off the bike to let your CNS rejuvenate itself (see bike.com training archives for great detailed info on this). You can either do this in October after the road racing season, or if you're really looking forward to getting into 'cross, do your month off in December. If you take your month off in December, don't expect to try to peak early on in April - you really should look to finish your build and peak in June/July anyhow.

When you start back into a fitness regime, begin by cross-training. You can run, XC ski, swim, ride 'cross, a fixed-gear, do spinning classes or MTB, anything that's a good aerobic workout. Caveat: if you do spinning classes, find an instructor who doesn't care that you keep the intensity low. Keep the road biking light to avoid mental burnout - besides it's hard to road ride in midwinter, and the last thing you want to do is start interval work on the trainer in December and January - it's too much, too soon. If you want to freeze your naughty bits off, let me know and we can do some open space lit night rides (dirt rules IMO). Then add in some simple, specific weight training or other strength-building workouts (stairs are good) starting in late Jan / early Feb. Work in more road riding through Feb/March, keeping volume high, and intensity low to moderate. Unless you truly want to peak for the Roubaix, then be trashed and overtrained later in the season, this is probably the best program to stick to. It should bring you into top form right as some of our big regional stage races and road races occur - late May thru early July (Iron Horse, Estes Park, Platte Bridge, state championships, etc...).
more funlonefrontranger
Apr 11, 2002 12:33 PM
If the link works, that is. Here's the profile of my Wednesday night hill repeat workout:

http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=13&n=4425112&e=477251&s=25

It's actually 2 miles from where I start to the top. The average grade in the first mile is roughly 5-6%, then it bumps up and gets pretty freakin' steep once you actually hit the park/open space. I start almost at the bottom of Table Mesa, at the last turnout before the shopping center.
With a little spin...wannagopro
Apr 10, 2002 11:15 AM
I do blocks of 10 min 30:30 with 10-15 minutes in between...the kicker is doing the first set seated and the second set standing (just for the 30s of work)...by the end I wanna die!!!
More on 30-30sJon Billheimer
Apr 10, 2002 3:05 PM
Veronique Billat's classic workout, based on her research, is to do 30-30s and later 60-60s at the velocity which if maintained for six minutes would elicit VO2 max. This velocity she calls vVO2 max. The beauty of doing this workout to exhaustion is it increases one's running or cycling velocity at VO2 max, velocity at LT, and maximum time at VO2 max.

Another useful 30 sec workout is 12 x 30 sec. all out sprints, followed by 4 min. recoveries. This works well for a speed sharpening microcycle prior to a key race.

By the way, LFR, this kind of training will turn you into a lactic-Amazon capable of challenging Zabel himself!
thankslonefrontranger
Apr 11, 2002 3:32 PM
This is all stuff I really need to work on. The key for me is going to be doing a proper build phase and not getting into too much too soon.

I'm going into the Boulder Center for Sports Medicine for LT and VO2MAX testing at the end of the month, so I'm interested to see how this will turn out.

I'd like to think I could challenge Zabel, but regardless of what training program I do he could still beat me blindfolded, on a tricycle, with one leg tied behind his back :-P
good stuff!lonefrontranger
Apr 11, 2002 3:21 PM
You are a real animal. If I did 10 min straight 30/30s you'd have to scrape me off the floor.