|team tactics stuff||Woof the dog|
Feb 7, 2002 9:47 PM
|suppose this actually happens and we ride as a team doing an actual paceline in front of the pack. If we have a gatekeeper and rotate like 3 guys at the front, you think we can wear the pack down significantly? How should we respond to flyers? Just reel them back in by keeping up high pace?
I've read coach Carl's stuff and I would also appreciate any useful things about team tactics. Chime in!
Thanx a bunch!
Woof the dog.
|re: team tactics stuff||Spaztic|
Feb 8, 2002 5:15 AM
|First off if you’re out front you better have a damn good reason. If your objective is to wear-down the pack there are better ways than killing your whole team, because in scenario presented you guys will be the ones dead tired. That is, unless your team is stronger the most of the field. If you want to get other teams tired, send one flyer out ant let the field take chase. Your team should sit-in. When your flyer is caught send another.|
|re: team tactics stuff||mixinbeatz|
Feb 8, 2002 8:43 AM
|I would just sit behind your team and watch you guys work harder than everyone else. Then I would sprint to victory. If you are gonna go, go. Don't sit at the front and wear yourselves out.|
|re: team tactics stuff||brider|
Feb 8, 2002 9:40 AM
|I definitely agree with Spaz, this is probably the WORST team tactic to use, unless you're blocking for a team mate that's in a breakaway. All you're going to do is wear yourselves out. Sending out your riders one at a time is a great way to either initiate the winning break (don't try to chase down every person who tries to bridge, only the ones that would make your rider's chances of victory very slim), or tire out the other teams primary riders.|
Feb 8, 2002 10:54 AM
|I love these hypothetical posts, but why would you be riding as a team at the front? If it is to wear down the peloton, there are only two instances I can think of where this might work: One, there is a hard crosswind or two, you have a team of climbers and you are doing this on a climb. Otherwise your team is toast for no good reason.
As for flyers, (assuming you are chasing a break) you would do best not to respond to them and just keep the pace high. You would have the option of trying to send riders with a good break if one develops to bridge though.
Feb 8, 2002 1:51 PM
|Case in point of my respectful dissent. Regarding your comment about the hard crosswinds, it is way too easy to work your way into the echolon. I've watched a team try this (5 riders). I just jumped right in and it was yellow line rule to boot! The gap from the lead to the tail is way too big. Face it Spaz covered it well.|
Feb 11, 2002 9:54 AM
|Spaz did cover it well. I don't think I contradidcted anything he said.
Many races, especially in the Spring Classics, have been ripped apart by crosswinds where one team dominates the front eschelon and drives the pace. If the gap is big enough, it is really hard to move from one eschelon to the next (although Rik Verbrugge did just that in his classic win in 2001).
One of the former Nutra Fig directors once told me a story about how he used this tactic to rip a race apart here in the U.S., and they were not a dominant team at the time.
Feb 8, 2002 10:59 AM
|Yeah, what everybody else said. Remember this - unless you are MUCH stronger than the rest of the field, the pace will be as hard on you as you perceive it to be on them, perhaps more so since your boys are working. Likewise, when you think the pace is easy, so will the rest of the field. Well, this holds true to that portion of the field that you care about.
I'm assuming you're a 4. If so, I wouldn't chew up any of my team in the first 3rd of the race at all. The early action will generally be instigated by unattached riders or knuckleheads that are going to get caught anyway. These guys will have no support AND will be chased by whatever knucklehead that's in a position to do so and will therefore drag the field up to the attacker. Just sit in. Chances are, the field will be thinned out naturally pretty early on without you having to do any work at all.
This is just based upon my experience when I was a 4 or 5.
Feb 8, 2002 12:16 PM
|Actually, if you have a long cross-wind section and you're team can set up a decent echelon and leave everyone else in the gutter... it's a good idea.|
|Team Tactics||Jim Hubbard|
Feb 8, 2002 8:19 PM
|Well its good to see a range of posts. And I agree the only time this are useful are if you have a rider on point in a break and if you have x-winds. Once use this tactic to great effect and are one of the most feared teams in the world when the race turns into a x-wind situation, they go to the front and ride a TTT. The secret is to make sure that there is only enough room for your team at the front and use a gate keeper. The pace needs to be kept high enough so that no one can move up. This keeps others out from trying to distrupt the train. As mentioned any other time other than protecting the lead in a tour is a wate of effort you are doing the other teams work for them!|
|yeah||Woof the dog|
Feb 9, 2002 9:44 AM
|Ok, people, you just can't imagine. I bet this tactic would be really good in a crit, where you could keep the pace up high and string out the pack...well, maybe not. Another advantage as someone else mentioned above is the crosswind thing. I've had a race I was dying in because of a hard wind from my forward-left direction. The only way to save energy was to get on the right side of someone. If we actually organized and did the echelon thingie w/ some hard pulls on that 2 mile stretch, I am sure we'd drop at least half the pack.
Obviously if its just a regular calm weather, there is no point in having the team up front, but i guess I wasn't clear enough in my original post.
thanx for all replies.
Woof, the packfodder dog.