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Honest training.(13 posts)

Honest training.Big Hoop
Jan 30, 2002 6:16 AM
Anyone out there think that it's still possible to get to the Tour (or even win) on a simple diet of good food and training, i.e. no EPO, suppliments, Insulin, whtaever, highly paid dieticians etc etc?

Anyone know of any vegitarian/vegan top(ish) racers?
Yes and NoWayne
Jan 30, 2002 6:57 AM
It's probably possible to get to the tour but to win it may be a different thing. There are some pros that when their name is mentioned, its almost always followed by, "he's one of the clean ones." Boardman and Rebellin are two that immediately come to mind. Interestingly last year at the raid during the Giro, Rebellin was the only Liquigas rider not found with suspicious substances (his lack of drug use is often given as the explanation why his Grand Tour performances reflect poorly on his shorter stage race and one day race results). It's also probably not a coincidence that French cycling went to hell when they cracked down on drugs after the Festina affair. I wouldn't be surprised if Italy's dominance starts to fade and we see a relative rise in the status of the Lowlands cyclists and the Spanish.
Yes.allervite
Jan 30, 2002 9:49 AM
Yes it can be done. There are plenty of cheats and their will always be those who will try. There are clean riders though. I have worked a few big races and those who are very close to the sport have a pretty good idea as to who is on something and who is not.

As for vegetarians, I am not sure that just because one does not believe in eating meat, that they would be less likely to dope. However, David McKenzie won a stage of the Giro while riding for the McCartney team and they were required to maintain a vegetarian diet.

I for one do not believe Lance is cheating.
Yes.Eric16
Jan 30, 2002 9:57 AM
Here here allervite. If you have the natural ability of a Lance Armstrong, Jan Ullrich, etc. then you don't need to dope...just to work your butt off!!!
Yes.brider
Jan 30, 2002 11:11 AM
Not to open a can of worms here, but there's a difference between "cheating" and "legal". Cheating is a matter of interpretation. Legal is black and white. I, for one, believe Lance is on "something," but I can guarantee it's legal. Same thing for most of the pro peleton. Can some one make it to TdF totally "clean" of all supplements, etc? Well, it's statistically possible. We may have even seen some one do it, but I would imagine it's EXTREMELY rare. The trade teams are paying good money for the pro's that bear their name, so there's going to be a lot of pressure to insure their good performance, by whatever means necessary. As for vegan/vegetarian, well, I don't view that diet as any better than a omnivore diet, and in many cases requires such careful planning that isn't going to be widely supported. Just my $.02.
Yes.allervite
Jan 30, 2002 12:06 PM
I personaly know riders who are or have been top caliber (none that have won the Tour). I know for a fact that they did not dope. I know for a fact that they beat riders who did dope. I think a lot of people think that doping is a huge advantage. I have not tried EPO or any other cutting edge doping substances. I did experiment with stimulants while training just to see how much of an advantage they provided. The advantage was insignificant as far as my experience was concerned, perhaps even counter productive.
Riders that I have heard talk about using Epo etc. claimed the advantage was not that great, but was noticeable and could mean the difference between finishing in the first or second group; but so could a slipped pedal, or an upset stomach, or a flat, etc. etc.. I think a lot of dopers are like Frigo. They think, "I could probably win, but why not take a chance and dope just in case."

I believe there are a lot more clean riders out there today then you believe. 10 years ago, I would agree with you, but even then there were riders who won big tours who were known to be training on "clear water alone". There was a climber who won the Vuelta years back that everyone agreed was clean. So even in a dope infested peloton, a clean rider can still win.
I dunno...shirt
Jan 30, 2002 12:14 PM
I think I'm going to have to dope to beat you, Allervite.

...Wait. I'm already a dope.

/shirt
Yea right.allervite
Jan 30, 2002 1:17 PM
So how much did that old Davidson weigh?

I was once at a MTB race and this young kid I knew from one of the bike shops was picking my brain. He went over to my box of groceries to see what constituted my race diet. He was expectig to see whole grain fruits and vegetables with perhaps a can of expensive european made dirnk mix. He was really disapointed to find a box of Lucky Charms.
No...TJeanloz
Jan 30, 2002 12:51 PM
Given the restrictions you put on, no way. The dietician clause kills it. Even clean riders have a dietician telling them what to eat. Maybe the lowest domestiques, riding their first tour, don't have the dietician yet- but many of them do.

As for vegans/vegitarians, I do know two guys who turned pro as vegans and gave it up shortly thereafter. They claimed that they couldn't eat enough soy volume to keep up protein levels. They didn't go straight to prime rib, but they ate a more traditional diet that included meat. Bobby Julich is a noted health nut- but I'm fairly certain he's not vegitarian.

There's an above poster who claims to KNOW some pro riders who weren't doping. Now, I lived with a few pro racers when I was in Boulder, and while everybody was vehemently anti-dope in our household, I can't say that I KNOW they weren't doping. I don't think anybody (including some of the riders themselves) KNOWS if somebody, even somebody very close to them, is not doping. It is impossible to prove that you're not doing something...
Knowallervite
Jan 30, 2002 1:21 PM
If you want to get metaphysical, then I agree with you. Do any of us really "know" anything.
KnowTJeanloz
Jan 30, 2002 5:28 PM
My point is only that you can know guys pretty well, and not really know if they're doping or not. And sometimes you get so caught up in what a great season they're having that you don't consider what the possible causes are. But only the dopers themselves know what they are doing.
What is your definition of "know"?ashleyrenfroe
Feb 14, 2002 7:59 AM
I am currently training with a couple of guys who ride at Pro2 level, one is ranked 14th in the nation on the USCF seniors level, road riding.

I had a long discussion yesterday with them both about the benefits of nutrition and supplements. They were both loud and proud to talk about supplements, but when I asked if there were an easier way, a more convenient way, they shut me down. They said steroid use at the non-Tour level, but at the Pro level, is pretty high. But that they believe hard work and proper nutrition is the only way to go because our body does not recognize "drugs" as quickly as foods with the same stimulants found in them.

No one can speak for EPO, except those who use it. No thanks. I am a beginner, and I want to get good. But if dedication and hard work won't get me there, then I'll take up video games again.
EPO for amateurs?!Eric16
Feb 18, 2002 9:34 PM
I'll pretend that didn't even get brought up...shesh....