|Supplements for Road Racing||Pat|
Dec 20, 2001 12:39 PM
|Any recommendations for training supplements for road racing. I have been using Endurox Excel. Looking at e-caps Any info would be appreciated.|
|re: Supplements for Road Racing||Zipper|
Dec 20, 2001 1:42 PM
|Everyone is looking for the latest and greatest supplements to enhance their performance. My adivce is to forget all that crap save and except a good post exercise drink such as Endurox or SmartFuel. During exercise I suggest PowerBars and lots of water. I cut them into fourths and each one or two every hou I am on the road. In the summer months include some drink with sodium. Most novice riders(Cat 5 -3)do not put in the kind of mileage for training and even races to warrant all those carb replacemetn drinks and the like. Focus on daily nutrition rather than supplements. Proper daily nutrition is the backbone of solid training. Half of the supplements are garbage to begin with.|
Dec 20, 2001 9:32 PM
|"Research has shown that trained cyclists need to ingest carbohydrate at the rate of 1 gram per minute to maintain normal blood glucose levels during prolonged rides." --Edmund Burke, Phd.
That's not a lot of mileage.
I would recommend the opposite. Spend your money on a good, convenient carbohydrate source for when you are on the bike. If Power Bars work for you, great. If Cytomax, great. For that post meal ride, I would recommend a good nutritious meal with plenty of carbs and some protein.
I'm curious as to what you think is garbage?
Dec 21, 2001 10:58 AM
|Notice the use of the "prolonged." I am not trying to be sarcastic but merely point out that I think Mr. Burke is referring to longer type endurance rides, for which I think Powerbars are adequate. That is my impression. Endurox, Excel for one. In fact, Excel is based on such bogus information and questionable studies that E. Burke refused to endorse the product. Endurocaps is another. The list can go on and on. One more comment: Bender comments that he has trouble ingesting sufficient food to meet his daily required caloric intake. This is a different situation that I think you point out below.|
|re: Supplements for Road Racing||Bender|
Dec 21, 2001 1:04 AM
|I swear by Endurox Excel right after a strenious ride but be sure to drink it up before the "glycogen window" closes (about 20 minutes post ride). This is absolutely the first action I take to begin the recovery process. I like to grab a quick hot shower (with a light message during) and then eat a nominal meal with simple carbs and simple protiens. Be careful not to 'chow down' too much after a workout, too much food in you gut robs your legs of blood flow for the sake of digestion. Also, the simple carbs and protiens take less energy to digest (beans and rice). I like keep the circulation in my legs 'open' as long as possible during the recovery process.
About an hour before bed I'll mix up a protien shake using two scoops of Mus-L Blast 2000+ (incredibly cheesy marketing name), about 8oz of soy milk, and two to four table spoons of yogurt, and mix completely. I'm lactose intollerant and must of the commercial body building suppliments contain milk products (hence the yogur in the mix). Tasts good and has been providing very good results. The Mus-L stuff is made by MLO products www.mloproducts.com. I began using body build type weight gain products this past season when I was burning off too much muscle. I was putting in a lot of miles and dropped down to 168lb (I'm 6'5"), I could not eat enough food on or off the bike to maintain muscle mass. After I began using Endurox and the Mus-L blastola stuff I began to develop significant muscle mass and fealt a lot better (more energy). I'll finish this year 7,000 miles (still have 150 to go) and am in way better shape than now then I was during my supposed peak when I was underweight.
Hope this helps,
Dec 21, 2001 9:13 AM
|Now I know what bender stands for. Give Designer Protein a try. It does not have all the sugar of the MLO product and it tastes really good. I had the same problem my first serious season of racing. I went from 170 lbs. to 138. I jumped on the weight gain and now I stay around 145-150. I'm 5'11". At 142 I have very little body fat and am in peak shape. I only needed the weight gain for the first two seasons though. My metabolism seemed to stabilize. I don't need near as much food on a ride as I used to either.
Got to be careful with some of those bodybuilding products though. A lot of them contain illegal sustances. You should really give Amino Acids a try also if you haven't.
|Don't waste your money||peloton|
Dec 21, 2001 10:52 AM
|Dont' waste your money on protein supplements. Odds are really good you get what you need from your diet. There are studies out there that show endurance athletes need 57% more protein than the average person. This is where a lot of this confusion comes from. Thing is, this 57% more figure comes from the standards based on a 2000 calorie a day diet. Think about how many calories that you consume in a day. For someone in training it is probably more in the 3000 plus range. You are getting this extra 57% protein just by keeping your calories in the 15% protein, 60% carbos, and 25% fat proportions. Just by keeping your diet in good proportions, you don't need to supplement protein or amino acids.
Additional protein also isn't going to get metabolised into muscle tissue. Your body's ability to bind amino acids into muscle tissue is dependent on the amount of binding sites you have for actin and myosin on the muscle and the amount of testosterone you have to bind it to these sites. You only have so much testosterone to bind amino acids from protein consumption into muscle. So basically, if you only have so much ability to metabolize protein into muscle. Extra will only be passed through urine or used to create ATP though glyconeogenesis. This is the reason that steroids work. They boost the testosterone so that you body can bind more aminos into muscle. The addtional testosterone keeps your muscle's binding sites open for creating more muscle. Your body doesn't have enough testosterone though to take advantage of excessive protein for muscle building. Protein supplements would only be advantagous if your diet was lacking in protein to begin with. It would be a lot cheaper to just fix your diet, and most people get too much protein here in the US to begin with.
Probably the best thing that you can do is just to eat a well balanced diet. Time of your food consumption and it's GI is important too. Gatorade is still a great way to keep up your liver's glycogen stores after exercise. Comsume it at an 8oz rate per 20 minutes for a couple hours after exercise. The glucose in the Gatorade at this rate won't cause a huge insulin spike and will allow your liver and muscles to absorb the glucose to replensish lost gylcogen stores. This is a good thing to prevent lethargy on later rides because of an empty liver. Although during some training periods you might want to run your stores down to train the body to be a little more fat adaptive. It's all situational.
A lot of the supplements that you will find are just hype and garbage. I would really just save your money for tires and drivetrain parts, and eat healthy. There are no magic bullets like rest, healthy diet, and smart training.
|Don't waste your money||Jon|
Dec 21, 2001 11:07 AM
Thank you. Thank you. And thank you. I hope readers of this thread sit up and pay
attention! I remember reading in my Ex. Phys. text that the average North American
athlete consumes eight times the protein that they need! Unbelievable. The Wieders
have masterminded one of the hugest marketing scams of all time on the public.
BTW, Merry Christmas. Try not to "snort" too much powder.
|Don't waste your money||peloton|
Dec 21, 2001 11:49 AM
|Snowing here today, Jon! Wish I was at the hill though to 'snort' some of it up. Another podium for Bode today too.
The protein thing really is too much. I'm convinced that Americans as a whole must have the most expensive urine in the world from all the 'supplements' being passed out. We are all really getting taken for a ride with the protein supplementations.
|Don't waste your money||Zipper|
Dec 21, 2001 12:00 PM
|Right on. Well said you guys.|
|Sorry about that "glycogen window" thing!||Kerry Irons|
Dec 21, 2001 5:38 PM
|Too bad you haven't seen the latest research. While the original work did show that eating immediately after exercise resulted in elevated muscle glycogen 4 hours after exercise, follow up work showed no effect 24 hours after exercise. For a two-event day, the glycogen window has meaning. Otherwise, it is meaningless.
Am I understanding you correctly that you couldn't keep your weight up riding 7K miles per year? You must have some strange metabolism - that's not many miles. 150 miles racing per day (TdF) can be a problem, but then it would only take you 45 days to accumulate 7K. Admittedly, eating an hour before bed is a way to gain weight, but it seems that you fall well outside the norm to be eating so much protein. Protein does not "build muscle mass" despite all the hype from supplement sellers. XS protein just makes for metabolites in the urine and a tendency toward dehydration. (That's how all the quick weight loss diets work) Your building muscle mass was due to the work load, and not what you ate. Finally, if you do need to add protein to your diet to get up to 0.75 gm per lb. of body weight, for most people (lactose tolerant), powdered milk is a very cost effective, high quality way to do it. About 1/5 the price of your typical supplement, and a better all around source of protein.
|re: Supplements for Road Racing||allervite|
Dec 21, 2001 9:20 AM
|Are you after on the bike performance enhancing supplements or recovery supplements or training supplements? Otherwise this is a very large subject.|
|re: Supplements for Road Racing||ishmael|
Dec 21, 2001 1:52 PM
|the one plus i can say about protein shakes is that they satisfy the "on the go" lifestyle..im an annoyingly slow eater and shakes are one way to get it down...but other than having a really fast metabolism and being an extremely slow eater i would go for real food....it tastes great, save the money and go to a resturaunt.|
|what about antioxidents||ishmael|
Dec 21, 2001 3:18 PM
|ive heard cyclists should take more of them since we are exposed to more polution or cancer causing agents or something...|
|re: Supplements for Road Racing||Zipper|
Dec 21, 2001 6:01 PM
|Pat: You have obviously started a vigorous discussion regarding sports nutrition. From my posts you should know where I stand on the subject, however, I encourage you to explore the pros/cons for yourself. Regarding Excel, there is a very critical article I once found on the internet that calls into doubt the claims the manufacturer makes. Do some research I think you will find it. Good luck.|
|re: Supplements for Road Racing||Bender|
Dec 22, 2001 6:55 PM
|If anybody's still interested in this thread (I'm learning a lot myself), I was inhaling around 4000 calories per day and losing muscle mass. I was getting 8 to 9 hours of rest at night and eating a reasonably balanced diet, no cheese burgers, but admittedly, a little light on the veggies (hey I'm an American).
After I began using Endourox and a muscle building supplement, I noticed two things very quickly. First the Endurox increased the pain threashold (psychosematic?) when I consumed it on the bike. Second, after about 4 weeks of daily protien shakes about 1 hour before bed, I began to notice dimensional changes in my leg muscles. My % body fat heald constant at around 7 to 9% as my weight increased. I had my % body fat measured be the same person every month with calipers.
I feel that I have found a combination that works for me (for now). As mentioned above, I also like the convenience of being able to replenish my body quickly after a ride.
|Timing is everything?||Kerry Irons|
Dec 23, 2001 8:01 AM
|Given that not eating before bed is a know way to lose weight (your body has to get its energy from stored fat if there is "no" food in your system), it makes good sense that eating just before bed would allow you to more easily maintain/gain weight. Your body would then be digesting and getting its energy from that food rather than going after the fat stores or catabolism. I would suggest the timing of your eating had/has much more to do with it than the "miracle" of either protein shakes or the particular brand you chose. Plus, you were likely adding calories to your daily total with the protein shakes. Never attribute to "mystery or magic" what can easily be explained through alternate means.|
Dec 24, 2001 2:39 PM
|What about Endurox R4 or Accelerade? The former is a recovery drink while the latter is an on-the-bike drink. Are they worth it?
This is sorta off-topic, but what is "metabolism." Many people say I have a "good metabolism" because I can eat a lot of bad foods and not get fat.
Dec 24, 2001 3:50 PM
|Your metabolism is your rate of burning calories. You can elevate your metabolism for a few hours with a hard ride. Some people just burn more calories at rest than others and are described as having a high metabolism. Your metabolism tends to slow down as you age. Think of people who are always warm - they likely have a high metabolism. People who are always cold likely have a low metabolism. Your thyroid is a big regulator of your metabolism. People with low thyroid activity (hypo thyroid) tend to gain weight and people with high thyroid activity (hyper thyroid) tend to lose weight.
Endurox R4 and Accelerade are simply high cost (but perhaps convenient) alternatives to food. No magic here (or in any other supplements).
|re: Supplements for Road Racing = HMB||High Gear|
Dec 30, 2001 3:55 AM
|I'm surprised not many riders know about HMB. I came across it in a supplament manual for weight training/ bodybuilding. I have used it three times in the past and was on it for a month and a half each time, twice in the gym under controled conditions , using a HR monitor. The HMB enabled me to breath better at a high heart rate than without taking it. This would be a great supplement for the racer that's at his/her peak and is looking for a boost. The only down side is that it's expensive ($1.00 per day),you have to be on it for 1 1/2 to 2 weeks to get the desired effects and you have to take 4 caps 3 times a day. EAS is the only manufacturer I know of.|| |