Dec 3, 2001 5:46 PM
|When there are breakaways and domestiques are sent to reel the breakaway in (let's say a single person trying to breakaway). How does this slow the person down? Gravity?|
|Just a few tricks from the peloton :-)||Colombian Climber|
Dec 3, 2001 6:42 PM
|a few tricks...
1. you get on the pace line... take your turn...but take it a little slower than the rest of teh line. You can usually kep this up for just a few times before they catch up
2. you get on the pace line but everytime it is your turn to pull you refuse and slow down...making people go around you and disrupting the rhythm and pace
3. you get on the pace line and when the person in front of you is about to drop after pulling.. you drop right before, creating confusion....("what the heck is this guy doing")
4. you simply stay on the line but never do any work...suck wheel till the end... this is very demoralizing on teh other members of the paceline...specially if you are a good sprinter...since they will think... "this sucks! we are doing all teh work just to have HIM outsprint us to the finish line!". They sometimes will prefer to drop back than to help YOU win.
5. (DO ONLY IF YOU CAN WALK THE TALK) Talk trash!. When other are pulling, say stuff, comment about their bikes, shorts, legs, zits on their faces, shinny stuff on their back tire... SAY anything to make them react and talk back to you...if they are talking, they are distarcted and .. they are not working as hard as they could be!
Just a few tricks from the pelopton...but remember be prepared to pay the price. :-). The climber
|Just a few tricks from the peloton :-)||Zipper|
Dec 4, 2001 6:52 AM
|With the exception of four the other suggestions are pure rubbish and unacceptable forms of unprofessional and unsportsmanlike conduct. If you want to reel in a breakaway your team should get to the front of the main field and bring them in. You should not disrupt a breakaway "internally". Domestiques are not generally sent to reel in breakawyas but rather "sit in" on the breakaway. If the breakaway sticks the team has someone who can contest for the win.|
|Hmmm.. But I gave 5?||Colombian Climber|
Dec 4, 2001 11:46 AM
|"With the exception of four the other suggestions are pure rubbish and unacceptable forms of unprofessional and unsportsmanlike conduct. "...
So what you are saying is that ONE of the 5 sugestions is unsportsmanlike....?
Ok, I wont discuss issues of professionalism... and ethics... And I do not claim that any of the offered tactics are ethical...I just describe what it is done in the peloton...The original poster asked how do they do it?... and I assumed he meant elite amateurs and pros...
IN that case, they do ALL five. Including the one you probably had most of the issues with... the trash talk!. Actually the pros love this one!!! they do it in the pace line, the peloton, before the sprints, at the base of climbs, when people attack on climbs, EVERYWHERE!. I am not saying it is ok, I am just saying that it is what happens!...
I have raced in the european amateur peloton every summer for several year and have had the chance to watch many of the pro and elite amateur races. I am simply reporting what I see every summer.
But concerning ethics... I am not sure who internally disrupting the paceline is unprofessional? I don't have a set opinion about it and I am open to different view points...
|Hmmm.. But I gave 5?||zipper|
Dec 4, 2001 12:28 PM
|To clarify, the good one is number 4. 1 thru 3 is bad and 5 is less offensive but does not physically impede a rider so may be ok. I too have raced in Europe, primarily in Italy and I can tell you that if you do 1 thru 3 in a break you're going to get your ass kicked - especially in Europe. Many of the tactics you discussed are generally acceptable when the team or a rider is in pursuit of a breakaway, ie when the field trying to catch a break and a team with a rider break is trying to prevent it from getting caught. However etiquette in a break differs greatly in many respects from field tactics.|
Dec 7, 2001 1:39 PM
|My experience is that outward/dangerous attempts to slow down a break are not acceptable. Other things however, like refusing to pull through or not pulling as hard as you would if you were an active 'break' participant are perfectly normal. But people remember these things, and they'll think twice next time you're in a break with them.
On the other hand, it would be equally unsportsmanlike to actively participate in a break if doing so hurts your leader's chances.
|re: Tactics...controlling breakways||Bruno S|
Dec 3, 2001 7:47 PM
|One breakaway and two domestiques:
Once the domestiques catch up, one of them breaks away from the breakaway rider. The other sucks his wheel. The breakaway rider is forced to chase one of the domestiques. Once he catches up, the domestiques change place. In short the breakaway rider is always pulling while the others take turns drafting. Actually this tactic will not reel in the breakaway but it makes it difficult for him to win.
|She/he will be reeled in after...||Colombian Climber|
Dec 4, 2001 11:50 AM
|He/she bonks from all the solo sprinting... If they keep this up, the solo rider will bonk before the two team riders. Then He/she will drop and the team riders can drop to the peloton if they have other duties, or continue to the finish line...|
|re: Tactics...controlling breakways||Dean|
Dec 4, 2001 3:19 PM
|All very detailed answers, but I think you guys overthought the query. Kingclimber asked how, when domestiques are sent to bring back a breakaway, they SLOW the breakaway down.
Most of the times domestiques are told to bring back a breakaway, they ride at the front of the peloton taking turns at a very fast pace. Two riders are almost always faster than one. Several riders are going to catch you unless you are with several riders. The domestiques don't try to slow the breakaway down, they just speed up and catch it with the peloton in tow.
Colombian Climber is describing tactics known a blocking: What you do at the front of the peloton when they are trying to catch one of your team mates. And yes you can get punched or slammed out of the paceline for it. A good team will not even let you in line.
Dec 20, 2001 12:12 PM
|if someone is able to get in the paceline and slow it down thats the pacelines fault, and thats racing, i dont see how anyone could see it as unethical and deserve violence..thats rediculous, spox's explaination(below) with the doorman sounds like a good sportsman like response..punching is out of line...i could see justified anger if someone was riding dangerously, but slowing the paceline isnt dangerous...i think everyone should understand this|
|re: Controlling breakways||Spox|
Dec 11, 2001 12:21 AM
|If your team does not have anyone in breakaway group, then
it will be reeled in for exaple like this:
If your team is six men, then five is doing hard pulling (fast turns)and one is 'doorman'. Doorman (normally not pulling) takes care, that nobody else can't get between chasing team. If 'wrongman' gets there, then doorman sits behind him and when 'wrongman' takes his (too slow) pull; doorman shoots by and take care that speed stays high. And then as 'wrongman' and doorman move back in paceline, doorman fights that 'wrongman' out of business.
And vice versa; if your team has two guys on breakaway group and it seems that you can't fight back as they get reeled in, then two guys load and rest in pack and two guys fight back for chasers. Just when breakaway group gets reeled in these two rested and loaded guys shoots off for
a new escape.