|Mike Moore's voting for Clark||ColnagoFE|
Jan 16, 2004 8:17 AM
|This ought to give the conservatives on the board a good laugh: http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php|
|I'm a conservative and I like Moore||landru|
Jan 16, 2004 8:35 AM
|Let's face it, he's right about a lot of things. I'm a middle aged white fairly coservative guy and I like Clark. Bush needs to go. Maybe I'm not as conservative as I used to be. I'm really PO'd today...A factory a hour or so north just announced they are packing up and taking their 2,700 jobs to Mexico. It's going to destoy the small town that it was in. I'm getting sick of it.|
Jan 16, 2004 8:40 AM
Jan 16, 2004 8:54 AM
|Michigan. Electrolux plant in Greenville. They make Frigidaire refrigerators. It was just announced at 7:30 this morning. Yes, i understand that a corporation has an obligation to their shareholders and to the company but they also have a responsibility to be a good corporate citizen. Now they can make cheaper stuff in Mexico and try to sell to Americans without jobs. Electrolux also sells Poulan chainsaws, Eureak Vacuums, and Weed Eater trimmers among other things. Guess whose products I will no longer buy?|
|'Foreman said these jobs are goin', boys, and||OldEdScott|
Jan 16, 2004 9:02 AM
|they ain't comin' back.' Great Springsteen song.
We have the same problems in Kentucky. We've just bled manufacturing jobs the past couple of years. Yet I haven't noticed any corporate bosses in the unemployment line, or even going without their bonuses.
|Why I'm not buying a Subaru either...||landru|
Jan 16, 2004 9:12 AM
|Lance can shill for them all wants but I just heard that Subaru is taking steps to reclassify a couple of their models as "light trucks." Therefore, they can skirt the fuel economy and emission standards that cars have to meet. Another example of shortsightedness.|
|You're a Democrat! Welcome! nm||OldEdScott|
Jan 16, 2004 9:13 AM
|Well, I've always been pro-environment||landru|
Jan 16, 2004 9:21 AM
|And it's not even Monday! (or is that just the first Monday of the month?)
Anyway, don't Democrats have better looking women?
(I'm probably more of a Centrist, along with the yellow striped dead armadilloes - get it?)
Jan 16, 2004 9:27 AM
|The Repubs have had some top-secret Liebensborn/selective-breeding/Master Race genetics program going on, and lately they've been trotting out legions of leggy blonde examples of Aryan perfection to shill for them. It's dispiriting.|
|So what are you going to buy?||gtx|
Jan 16, 2004 9:28 AM
|Even Volvo and Porsche make SUVs these days (though perhaps the Volvo meets the same emission requirements as their cars). I think Subaru was one of the last holdouts. It's just a loophole that needs to be closed. I don't blame Subaru. The only PC car is the one that sits in your driveway as you take the bus or ride you bike to work.|
|it's a difficult question||MJ|
Jan 16, 2004 9:34 AM
|manufacturing jobs are tough to maintain in a free trade global economy where the only real winner is big corporate entities and never the average guy
in England in the 1980's the coal industry was gutted by the Iron Lady - people here on the left in particular still hold her responsible for the destruction of entire towns and regions - places that now have the country's worst statistics - the problem is that the coal pits were not profitable - they were running at a loss - English workers cost too much money to dig for coal
it seems US workers cost too much as well
while it's not directly comparable you gotta ask how any manufacturing or agricultural jobs can be maintained in the west in an era of "free trade" and ever expanding corporate empires without substantial subsidies (which defeat the lip service paid to "free trade") - in any event it seems the subsidies benefit the big corporates as much, or more than they benefit the average guy
and when I refer to these corporate empires you can look to the Wal-Mart model for the real trickle down effect that a thriving corporate scene generates in its wake
anyobdy have any suggestions?
|I'm a conservative and I like Moore||bill105|
Jan 16, 2004 9:27 AM
|first, we compete in a global economy. forcing electrolux to stay in the u.s. and produce goods for $700 when they can be produced elsewhere for $300 will definately run them out of business. electrolux is one of the last appliance companies to move production somewhere cheaper. bush didnt make them leave and couldnt do anything to make them stay. thats like saying when there is an earthquake its the current governors fault.
second, i bet workers in sweden would like to have the jobs the u.s. workers have had for so long. the parent company is based in sweden isnt it? the swedes have probably wished electrolux was a good community citizen to sweden.
|no "we" don't compete in a global economy||MJ|
Jan 16, 2004 9:42 AM
|big corporates compete in the global economy
free trade means free for them, the big corporates. with all the subsidies they can manage through lobbying efforts - $20b per year to agri-business alone - steel tariffs - the list is long
so what, other than further devaule the US dollar before the election (my March visit to Dallas is gonna be cheap), can be done to save US jobs in an age of "free trade"?
you must recognise there's a problem with this model?
|Something tells me the Swedes. . .||czardonic|
Jan 16, 2004 10:12 AM
|. . .don't envy US workers in the slightest.|
|Something tells me the Swedes. . .||bill105|
Jan 16, 2004 10:19 AM
|you may be right if low tech jobs like refirgerator assembly are our best hope. but i would bet you could find enough swedes out of work or who want to move up? who would like to have the jobs we lost.|
Jan 16, 2004 10:25 AM
|I doubt that even an unemployed Swede would consider a job in a Michigan refrigerator factory a "move up", as it would likely spell a "move down" in his or her standard of living.|
Jan 16, 2004 10:38 AM
|not in michigan, in sweden. surely you agree there are unemployed swedes who would think a factory job was a move up from unemployment. the do have factories in sweden dont they?|
|In that case, you are probably right.||czardonic|
Jan 16, 2004 10:42 AM
|But I said they didn't envy US workers. I suspect that being a factory worker in the US and one in Sweden is significantly different.|
Jan 16, 2004 11:30 AM
|define "conservative" as you believe you are. On what issues? If it matters, I would likely be a libertarian, with conservative leanings.
In my opinion, no bigger hypocrit exists than Michael Moore. He has become extremely wealthy from what I would consider exploitation of the plights of the American manufacturing class.
|"Exploiting" plights is not the same as creating them.||czardonic|
Jan 16, 2004 11:43 AM
|So even if your characterization of how he became wealthy were reasonable (its not), how does it make him a hypocrit?|
|I'm not sure if any president can protect American jobs.||MR_GRUMPY|
Jan 16, 2004 10:34 AM
|The only people that can protect American jobs are Americans. My son's girlfriend is Japanese. She almost always buys Japanese products regardless of the costs. Is she dumb, or are Americans just cheap idiots ?|
|Like Japanese what?||shawndoggy|
Jan 16, 2004 2:54 PM
|Just curious, what products Japan is competitive with. Electronics and cars are all that come to mind. Both could be defendend on availability (i.e. where do you find an "American made" electronic anything) and quality (autos and electronics). If she's 1st gen Japanese, then she may also be buying japanese food, but shoot, I'd probably be hunting down a jar of skippy in Tokyo.
What else is there?
FWIW, my wife is 2nd gen (American born) Korean-American, and she buys the same crap that other 30 somethings in America buy. Her 1st gen parents don't "buy Korean" that I can think of (god forbid they ever purchase a Korean car). They do have an affinity for Japanese electronics, but again I suspect that that's due to a perception of quality rather than Asia First (Koreans aren't too fond of the Japanese btw, even some 60 years past Japanese occupation of Korea).
I mean really, Grumps, what dumba$$ buys an American car on quality grounds? HP maybe, Trucks -- not much else out there, cheap -- we got that, but quality?
Aside, saw a sweeeeeet "Boycott Products Made in France" sticker on the back of someone's pickup window today. Yeah, that'll learn 'em.
Jan 16, 2004 3:02 PM
|How many "Japanese" products are actually made in Japan? Some for sure, but I am guessing not too many.
That said, Japan is an area of interest for me and in San Francisco's "Japan Town" you can buy Japanese (as in associated with a Japanese brand) versions of just about any household requirement.
|Annectodal observation of Japanese buying American...||shawndoggy|
Jan 16, 2004 3:07 PM
|Been to Hawaii lately? At like every tourist-oriented convenience store they've got what amounts to suitcase-sized amounts of beef jerky. Some even come in a plastic "beef jerkey suitcase."
I can only surmise that this massive amount of beef jerky is geared towards the Japanese tourists. Guess we've got something worth exporting.
|Weird. Maybe they view it as some kind American idiosyncracy.||czardonic|
Jan 16, 2004 3:16 PM
|You know, "when in Rome".|
|I think it's the liberal media conspiracy and Clinton...||shawndoggy|
Jan 16, 2004 3:21 PM
|keeping the news of the potentially destabalizing beef jerky shortage from us.|
|Anything that says "made in japan"||MR_GRUMPY|
Jan 16, 2004 4:57 PM
|She was born and raised there. Came over here to go to college by herself. She puts up with American products when she has to (I think to be polite), but doesn't trust anything Chinese, or (Heaven forbid) Korean.
There are many people who believe that American cars are just as good or better than foreign cars. I've got friends who still think a Buick is a great car. (Even after I remind them how much money they have put into the car for repairs)
|But that was my Q, Mr. G, what actually *IS* made in Japan?||shawndoggy|
Jan 18, 2004 8:07 AM
|I can't think of much stuff that I run across in my day to day life that is made in Japan these days. Most likely China.
So do Hondas made in Kentucky count?