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anyone being surveilled at work or other place(27 posts)

anyone being surveilled at work or other placezeke
Dec 22, 2003 11:11 AM
some technology is becoming a pain. i have in mind now tech that can report locations of employees to employers (or children to parents). has anyone had an experience where you were required to carry some sort of device, eg gps, or some such with you on the road so your employer would be able to track your every move? or something more lightweight but just as annoying, has anyone's employer asked for your cell phone number so that you could be contacted at anytime during the work day.
finally, if you do respond, would you let us know if you fall into the category of employer or employee?
thanks.
re: anyone being surveilled at work or other placeTJeanloz
Dec 22, 2003 11:14 AM
"has anyone's employer asked for your cell phone number so that you could be contacted at anytime during the work day."

Ha. I consider myself lucky if my employer doesn't call my cell phone between the hours of 1am and 5am. OTOH, they don't care where I am, as long as I can [and do] answer the phone.
re: anyone being surveilled at work or other placezeke
Dec 22, 2003 11:16 AM
was it a requirment for employment? or did they add it on after? does it annoy you ? and do you think it will get worse, either your case or others?
Goes with the territoryTJeanloz
Dec 22, 2003 11:24 AM
It doesn't especially bother me. It isn't spelled out as a requirement, but it is an assumed one.

Do I think it will get worse? Not really. It depends on the job you're doing, and how you do it. I think more lower-level people will be subjected to more electronic monitoring products, but those who do their work well shouldn't worry about it.
Goes with the territoryzeke
Dec 22, 2003 11:27 AM
but that last part you wrote is similar to saying "let us investigate you, if you are innocent you need not worry about anything" isnt it?

are you concerned about privacy rights? (not sure if they exist in the case of cell phone numbers)
Yeah, pretty muchTJeanloz
Dec 22, 2003 11:33 AM
The last part, I'm saying that employers have both the right and obligation to keep track of their employees while they're at work. Any time you're on the clock, your employer can tell you what to do [within legal limits]. I don't think you have a specific right to privacy when somebody else is paying you.
but how about off the clock?ColnagoFE
Dec 22, 2003 11:53 AM
I mean when employers expect you to answer cell phones and such outside normal business hours? That seems to be an invasion to me unless stated in your job description outright. And then you have the issue of drug testing in the workplace. Sure I'd agree that some professions might require it, but for some it seems just another way for big brother to snoop into my personal life.
but how about off the clock?TJeanloz
Dec 22, 2003 12:00 PM
Off the clock, it's none of their business, unless it is (you're stealing from them in your spare time).

For me, there is no clock, and that's understood.
I know of one place where it matters.dr hoo
Dec 22, 2003 11:52 AM
Nurses.

Some hospitals are tracking workers through their ID badges. This means they can see exactly how long people are in a room, or standing in the hallway. What this leads to is bean counters setting "targets" and managers evaluating staff on how well they meet the targets. I am talking about things like "Our target is 30 seconds on average in a room for x, 60 seconds for y, etc"

And what THIS leads to is nurses spending less time in rooms talking with patients, and less time talking with colleagues in the halls (often, but not always regarding patients). Less time with patients is correlated with lower quality health care, and higher death rates.

Even if you are not a "low level worker" you and people you know will feel the effects.

It's micromanagement at it's worst. It is happening, and it will happen more and more.
I know of one place where it matters.zeke
Dec 22, 2003 12:00 PM
nurses are overworked as it is, and to be surveilled doing a job that is supposed to be humanistic (yes, as well as scientific) is sickening.
those asses (aka bean counters) can do statistics, but dont they and those who advocate such analyses see what they are doing? i would guess they are young (the asses in your nurse case) with no real contact with nurses, with their jobs or patients.
all of you out there who advocate such nonsense, change your minds, change your minds now.
privacy is mostly an illusion nowdaysColnagoFE
Dec 22, 2003 11:22 AM
I hate it. I hate stuff that erodes it. The only way my employer gets my cell or home # is if they start paying for those bills. I believe that most of our busses have GPS on them now so they can track where the busses are at any minute. UPS drivers are routinely spyed upon to see if they are goofing off. Spyware tracks what website I visit. So far RBR has not set off a red alert. Playboy.com probably would. So does technology make us free? Not really...probably more of a prisoner than you can even imagine. Best not to dwell on it.
An interesting side-issue. Add/Spyware.sn69
Dec 22, 2003 11:27 AM
I've been wondering how Spyware and Addware can be legal. I'm talking about that which affixes itself to your home computer while browsing public sites. At no point, to my knowledge, at least, do most sites ask your permission to enter as a function of implied consent to affix Add/Spyware onto your computer.

How can this be legal?!

Doug?
An interesting side-issue. Add/Spyware.zeke
Dec 22, 2003 11:33 AM
i also wonder. i wonder also if the legality has been tested. not only is it annoying, but if i do some work on internet, these ads sometimes eat up my memory and i need to reboot, wasting my time. it could be illegal from this angle.

anyone know?
Mostly, those are "agreed to" by you.dr hoo
Dec 22, 2003 11:38 AM
No, really. You agreed. Somewhere along the line, either by registering for a web site (did you read the agreement, or just register) or downloading and installing some software. You may not have "opted out".

If you look at all software agreements, they basically say "if this messes up your computer, tough luck. Not our fault."

EULAs. They have some interesting clauses in them.
Nope,sn69
Dec 22, 2003 11:45 AM
I'm talking about stuff that appears after simply viewing a website, particularly those that are administrated here in the US. I've found stuff in my hardrive after nosing around some of the larger internet-retail outlets (marketing tools perhaps), none of which ask for specific registration. FWIW, I never "register" as a customer. Something about that bothers me.
consentDougSloan
Dec 22, 2003 11:52 AM
My bet, as well, is that somethere along the line you clicked on something acknowledging consent to this. It may or may not have been obvious, though.

If not, causing a computer to do something it is not intended to do by it's owner is a crime, both under federal law and California. The laws are actually very, very strict. They are rarely enforced, though. I got familiar with them when I represented a computer network systems company who had an employee go nuts on them right after they fired him. He used passwords he still had to corrupt several of the clients' systems and the companies. The owner, my client, documented everything extremely well, including tracing the IP address to the guy, and handing a package of evidence over to the FBI. We also filed a civil suit, largely to enjoin him from even getting on the internet (temporarily). He plead guilty to federal crimes and is now serving probation.

You cannot mess with other's computers without permission.

Doug
I think in this case it is illegal activity.dr hoo
Dec 22, 2003 11:58 AM
There are websites that (try to) throw trojans on your computer. Mostly these use holes in IE and windows to place a "back door" on your machine. From what sn69 said, I would guess this might be the case.

Some websites might claim that simply by visiting them, you are subject to the terms of their "privacy policy". Sleazy, but I don't know if it is illegal.
I need to pay closer attention. Thanks, both of you. nmsn69
Dec 22, 2003 12:00 PM
consentzeke
Dec 22, 2003 12:04 PM
no, all you need do is visit and not click on anything.

also, would you please go into more detail about not being able to 'mess' with others' computers. what do you mean by 'mess'?
Nope,zeke
Dec 22, 2003 11:53 AM
it should bother you and everyone else. i didnt give permission for ads to be placed in my limited space 'mailbox' slowing me down and annoying me.

i think companies' ability to do so falls under free speech. and i also think this was challenged recently and they won via bush.

its disturbing.
Mostly, those are "agreed to" by you.zeke
Dec 22, 2003 11:50 AM
i am talking about popups that accumulate and eat memory so that one cannot open up additional software.
privacy is mostly an illusion nowdayszeke
Dec 22, 2003 11:31 AM
do you mean spyware at your place of employment?

but if we dont 'dwell on it' as you say, then it will only get worse. no?

if we complain on forums such as this, a base may grow and could be mitigated, especially if lawers are involved.
I think the battle has already been lostColnagoFE
Dec 22, 2003 11:55 AM
I know that sounds nihlistic, but I think it is accurate. I don't think they can put the cat back in the bag--so to speak.
I think the battle has already been lostzeke
Dec 22, 2003 12:08 PM
maybe it hasnt been challenged yet.
the spam issue was recently reviewed, now maybe its time for popups and such. all computer users are subject to them so when congress members become annoyed enough, then we will maybe see some results.
he sees you when you're sleeping, he knows when you're awake...DougSloan
Dec 22, 2003 11:27 AM
I thought we all were being watched all the time, anyway? ;-)
re: anyone being surveilled at work or other placeFTMD
Dec 22, 2003 1:49 PM
One of my "clients" has my cell phone number. I would say that at least every other weekend I get a call where they request I come in do to a rather menial task but one that is important in the grand scheme of things (sign my name). It's exceedingly annoying to me, especially when they catch me at a bad time. That and it takes at least an hour to stop what I'm doing, get there, do my task, get home and resume whatever it was I was doing. I work hard enough during the week and really hate having my weekend interrupted.
There is a recent ....Live Steam
Dec 22, 2003 6:03 PM
battle over placing GPS in vehicles that are contracted to plow roads for the Mass. Highway Dept. The Dept. claims the GPS phones will help them utilize equipment more efficiently and help them with billing. The drivers claim it's intrusive and unreliable.