's Forum Archives - Non-Cycling Discussions

Archive Home >> Non-Cycling Discussions(1 2 3 4 )

Baylor and Tri-Rich quotes for you(7 posts)

Baylor and Tri-Rich quotes for youlotterypick
Dec 2, 2003 1:17 PM
The high levels of AIDS arise from the failure of African political and religious leaders to recognize social and sexual reality. The means for containing and conquering the epidemic are already known, and could prove effective if the leadership could be induced to adopt them. The lack of individual behavioral change and of the implementation of effective government policy has roots in attitudes to death and a silence about the epidemic arising from beliefs about its nature and the timing of death.

another quote:

two principal factors are to blame (for the AIDS epidemic in the developing countries): first, the reluctance of national governments to take responsibility for preventing HIV infection; and second, a failure by both national governments and international agencies to set realistic priorities that can have an effect on the overall epidemic in countries with scarce resources and weak implimentation capacity. (Lancet)

By the way, I heard in the news two days ago that HIV was up in the gay community and especially latinos because they believe the gay community has become lax about AIDS and believe it's a treatable situation. Meaning, they seen it and heard aobut it and now believe people can live with it. Therefore, they aren't protecting themselves.

You both stated I was misinformed about my position that AIDS is now mostly about people (gays, drug users, national governments, religous leaders (tribal, etc.) who aren't willing to change their lifestyle or change policy and habits to stem the growing tide of AIDS in Africa and the gay community.

By the way, have you ever heard a Project LA poetry reading. Full of bath houses and statements like, I gotta be me, even if I and all my friends are dead or dying. That's pathetic and I don't know why I should have a heart to help them, when they don't give a damn about the consequences of their actions until they're in trouble (which leads to death).
I don't think anyone was defending individual irresponsibilityjtolleson
Dec 2, 2003 2:21 PM
but your generalizations about communities "not caring" and not "doing anything" and thus collectively deserving your scorn was what put you on the chopping block.
Here's my thoughtlotterypick
Dec 2, 2003 2:48 PM
What good is it if you care but they (the affected parties) don't.

What good is it if the communities, organizaitons and rest of the world care if they (the affected parties) don't.

That's what gets me. All this crying over them when the epidemic is controllable and manageable if only the fargin individuals would control themselves and their leaders would insist and change their groups actions and attitudes toward unprotected sex, which is the root of the majority of the spread.

All this crying for money, crying of aid, crying for drugs, etc. when they should be looking in the mirror and telling themselves NO.

I'm not saying there are cultural and religious issues, but that's the real problem. It's not money or access to drugs.
Here's some things to think about.dr hoo
Dec 2, 2003 4:51 PM
First, this is a complex problem. If you want to know how it got as bad as it is, a good place to start is READING the book "And The Band Played On". (the movie, while good, does not have enough info in it). That will give you a good background on the politics of it. I would note that things could have been stopped early on. They weren't. So history matters here.

"...telling themselves no" is an interesting idea. Consider this: I was interviewing a woman in south central los angeles a few years back. She got HIV from her husband. In fact, they were using anal sex as birth control, which highly increases the transmission risk. But she had no idea of that.

Now consider what has happened to programs that fight AIDS and TALK about anal sex, in terms of federal funding in the past 3 years. Guess if they get more money or less? In fact, it seems that certain research topics will be hard to find funding for, topics that happen to focus on the groups most at risk. Men who have sex with men, IV drug users, trangendered, etc.

Any suprise we are seeing a slight uptick in infection rates in the USA (mostly among gay men in large urban areas btw)? Part is due to better medications, so people don't see it as a death sentence. Part is due to young people seeing it as an "old person's" disease. But these and other causes can stem from less educational work going on.

I have seen high school AIDS programs where the word "condom" was not allowed to be said by the instructor. If a student asked about them, they could not answer the question asked, but had to spout a line about abstinence being the only 100% sure way to go. That's goooooooood edukaytin!!

Look at what Thailand did. With all the sex trade, they have managed to get their problems under control. Guess how important explicit and frank education was to that?

Also, one of the BEST programs for reducing HIV transmission rates is needle exchange. Exchange as in turn in a needle, get a clean one back. THAT works. Think those programs are being promoted by the current administration? Or reduced?

Now, when we talk Africa (and sub-Saharan Africa is where the worst effects are seen), we have a very different story. Transmission is mostly heterosexual. Most of the women infected were infected by their husbands. Their children are infected before birth.

Will you blame those children for not saying "no"? Will you blame the women, who might get beaten and raped if they asked their husbands to wear a condom, or even thrown out of the house, or killed, for not saying "no"?

Throw in the myth that sex with a virgin will cure AIDS, and you have a huge amount of children, and even infants, being raped and infected. Want to blame the 2 year old who was infected when raped?

There is a country in Africa where the life expectancy is 26 years, because of AIDS. Without AIDS it would be 74.5 years. If you want to turn your back on that level of human suffering, and say "It's their own fault", that is your right.

However, "just say no" as a public policy will only let the problem get worse.
Here's my thoughtcritmass
Dec 2, 2003 5:38 PM
AIDS is a serious global problem and one that needs continued attention, research and funding. It's an epidemic in sub-Saharan Africa for a reason. The U.S. has the capital to fund prevention, education and treatment programs, Africa doesn't, and there are activists in the U.S. with access to the media to raise awareness about the disease.
Your lack of insight with your "life-style" disease comments insults those hundreds of thousands of children in Africa and elsewhere with AIDS and the hundreds of thousands of women who have been raped. But then you probably know nothing about things like the Rwandan AIDS genocide committed against the women of that country. According to your thinking funding treatment and research into other "life-style" diseases must be a waste of money too, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, cancers or are you tolerant of greed, gluttony and avarice, but just intolerant of sexual sins? I think my tax dollars are better spent in the NIH on AIDS with a better and longer return than wasted in Dubya's misadventures in Iraq.

The real cost of Dubya's lies:
526 grieving families
Total U.S. wounded: 2496

December 1, 2003
Release Number: 03-12-01C

AR RAMADI, Iraq - This morning, a Task Force "All-American" patrol was ambushed with small arms fire near Habbaniyah.
One soldier was critically wounded during the attack and was evacuated by air to Forward Operating Base St. Mere where the soldier later died of his wounds.
You are indeed correct........NMTri_Rich
Dec 3, 2003 7:30 AM
Sorry that's not clearTri_Rich
Dec 3, 2003 7:47 AM
The issue with your original statement was with your claims that people weren't doing anything, which is demonstrably false.

Indeed individual responsibility would eliminate many problems, including Oxycontin addiction.