|Memories of Ronald Reagan...||mohair_chair|
Nov 4, 2003 10:29 AM
|The Reagan mini-series debacle on CBS reminded me of when old Ron came to speak at my school on November 5, 1984. I was a nutso left winger at the time, but I couldn't pass up seeing the President. I don't remember anything about what he said, except that it was basically a pep rally. It was a day or two before Election Day, and he was back in California on his way home.
I found a copy of the speech on the Internet which wrongly says it was given in Van Nuys, not Woodland Hills. It was at Pierce College, a junior college which was formerly an agricultural college, and still had a working farm and classes in topics like animal husbandry and swine management techniques. We called it "Moo U."
Anyway, the opening line of the speech seems funny to me now. What a motley bunch of characters:
Governor Deukmejian, Senator Wilson, distinguished Members of the House of Representatives, former Senator George Murphy, Rosey Grier, and Frank Sinatra -- my good friends -- and my fellow Californians:
I can't tell you how great it feels to be back in southern California and among long-time friends. You know, I intend to come back here and live -- about 4 years from now.
Then he goes on to pump all the Republicans running for office in the area:
My special regards to Bobbi Fiedler. It's been a long time since she was organizing bus stops here in the valley. And she's doing a terrific job in the Congress. On election day, do me a favor: Send Bobbi back to Washington. And that goes for Congressmen Carlos Moorhead, Dan Lungren, Dave Dreier, and a candidate up here named, I hope, to be Congressman Dornan. And while you're at it, spread the word, also, and get out the vote for Richard Gomez and Claude Perry. And if you don't mind, try to win our California races for the Gipper.
No one wanted Bob Dornan, not even Reagan, it seems! Then, as if anyone cared (it's a junior college!!), he throws in a folksy reference to the football team (San Dimas high school football rules!):
But I am especially proud to be here with the students of Pierce College. Pierce is not only a fine college, but I understand you've got a football team with a 7 - 0 record this year.
Well, I hope our "opportunity team" does as well tomorrow as the Brahma's have been doing this season.
They handed out little flags so we could wave them gleefully after every paragraph.
Reading it now, it's actually a pretty good speech, maybe even a Peggy Noonan. I wish Bush Jr. would get some good writers.
|Speechwriting for GWB would be painful||TJeanloz|
Nov 4, 2003 10:42 AM
|Bush has a horrible time with delivering lines well. He's just not good at making remarks that are supposed to sound off-the-cuff actually sound off-the-cuff.
The only exception was the soundbite after he met Arnold Schwarzenegger, and pointed out that they had three things in common, having married well, having a hard time speaking the language, and having big biceps - two out of three ain't bad.
Only decent written off-the-cuff delivery I've seen GWB deliver.
|Is Reagan being portrayed unfairly?||Tri_Rich|
Nov 4, 2003 12:14 PM
|He either lied to Congress or did not have any control over his own administration, (I don't know which is worse). His proxy wars with the USSR helped create the current terrorist problem, and it could be argued he represented the nail in the coffin of the politician as anything other than a speech delivery device.
On the other hand he did wonders for the sale of jelly beans
|and don't forget--he made Ketchup into a vegetable (nm)||ColnagoFE|
Nov 4, 2003 1:01 PM
|Doesn't take much to figure out what's good for you...||No_sprint|
Nov 4, 2003 1:50 PM
|Bye bye Showtime! Never had it, never will!
I know CBS probably stuffed it down their throat, being they own 'em.
|No it doesn't ...||sacheson|
Nov 5, 2003 7:27 AM
|... but at least now we can rely on our government to censor what we watch!
Hurray for the neo-con strong-arming the networks!
No where are those stiletto jack-boots again?
|You too are on the outside looking in...||No_sprint|
Nov 5, 2003 8:05 AM
|The power of the people won. :)|
Nov 5, 2003 8:14 AM
|Where does anyone get censorship (i.e. the state) out of this?
What am I missing?
|Only in this place by the conspiracy theory gang of four....||No_sprint|
Nov 5, 2003 8:23 AM
|This is the first I've heard of that hairbrained concoction too. Cory said it well the other day. "I don't know whether this gang is scary or pathetic." Either way...|
|"Liberal" media is owned by big corporations||Tri_Rich|
Nov 5, 2003 8:30 AM
|who generally support conservative politicians who support big companies.|
|The speechwriters were not as important as the man . . .||HMS|
Nov 4, 2003 1:56 PM
|I was no fan of Ronald Reagan's -- I had the chance to vote for him twice and declined to do so both times (In other words, I am admitting that I voted for Jimmy Carter in 1980 and Fritz Mondale in 1984). But, Ronald Reagan was one of two persons I have heard speak in person that mesmerized me (Bill Clinton was the other one). Both Reagan and Clinton had a presence and manner of speaking that gave credence to what they were saying even if it was untrue or opposed to the listener's beliefs. You could get a feel for Reagan's and Clinton's persuasiveness on television, but there was a special dimension to their in-person speaking that I can't describe other than to say both of them had a speaking skill that I never have experienced elsewhere. GWB just doesn't have the same skill and no speechwriter or coach ever will make him into a Reagan or Clinton. GWB will have to sink or swim on the merits of his policies and performance in office -- his speaking will not get him anywhere.|
|good point||Duane Gran|
Nov 6, 2003 8:16 AM
|I have also heard Clinton speak in person and it was impressive. In an audience of 300 people he had the ability to make you feel like he was talking directly to you. It was amazing and erie all at once.|
|What a farce.||critmass|
Nov 5, 2003 12:14 AM
|I guess it didn't sufficiently fawn over the great mis-communicator, not treating him as a demigod boxed, packaged and ready to be chiseled onto Mount Rushmore, which I'm sure is on the right's agenda as soon as he passes away.
Free expression isn't the Amerikan media way anymore. The crypto-fascists running Amerika today obviously revile it.
But then maybe the real offense wasn't the script but casting object of right wing hate Streisand's husband as Ray-Gun Ronnie.
What a farce.
The real cost of Dubya's lies
As of 11-04-03
435 grieving families
Total U.S. wounded 2192
11-04-03 Centcom: One soldier attached to the 1st Armored Division was killed and two were wounded when their military vehicle struck an improvised explosive device in Baghdad at approximately 10:10 a.m. Nov. 4.
|You've got it backwards.||DJB|
Nov 5, 2003 7:58 AM
|This was nothing more than a liberal activist hit piece on Reagan, which invented dialog and situations which didn't exist and weren't properly sourced.
You asked me a few days ago to do my research
(critmass "Clinton caught again!" 10/31/03 12:26am),
which by the way I hadn't, and I retract the statement (I hope to have more about it if I can get to the library at lunch-time).
So it's fair to ask, did you do any before blaming 'crypto-fascists'?
>"Finally, CBS is doing the right thing about "The Reagans." Under pressure the network has decided not to air the two-part biopic, steering it instead to the cable outlet Showtime (like CBS, owned by Viacom). But just because a far smaller audience will now see the film (Showtime draws maybe a million viewers on a top night) doesn't make this story any more accurate. According to the screenplay for "The Reagans," my father is a homophobic Bible-thumper who loudly insisted that his son wasn't gay when Ron took up ballet, and who in a particularly scathing scene told my mother that AIDS patients deserved their fate. "They who live in sin shall die in sin," the writers and producers had him say." -- Patti Davis
>"But, from all the excerpts Drudge has exposed, this biopic seems to me to be almost one of a kind. It was so egregiously designed to attack a beloved president in his waning years, so riddled with obvious lies and distortions, so hateful in its intent, that I doubt any major network would have gotten away with it in any time. Even Leslie Moonves, the Castro-loving lefty who runs CBS, was forced to concede: "It's biased." Can you imagine how bad it is if even Moonves sees through it? In some ways, I think Drudge has inadvertently rescued CBS. If the miniseries had run, the backlash would have been so great, the exposure of the poisonous bias in parts of CBS so final, it might have helped destroy the already-flailing old media network. So the new media saved the old media. That in itself, of course, is a major story. And Drudge deserves credit for reporting it. Yes, reporting it. Why do the old media never give him credit when he does journalism as well as any of them?"
|Right on DJB. No blinders on you. nm||No_sprint|
Nov 5, 2003 8:12 AM
Nov 5, 2003 8:25 AM
|What's with the font on those quotes?
I used the > sign to indent the quote as the instructions show, but the font turned teeny tiny! Or is it just my machine?
Oddly enough, when you go to reply, the text is normal size.
I also meant to show a second paragraph from the Time article. It follows directly after the one in my previous post. (but read the whole thing.)
(no more tiny text!)
"CBS execs say the line about AIDS victims has now been deleted. I asked Bert Fields, one of America's best known entertainment attorneys, who is not my lawyer but is a friend, to call CBS head Les Moonves and point out how painful the line was. My mother, through her attorney Ira Revitch, also wrote to Mr. Moonves asking for its removal. Not only did my father never say such a thing, he never would have. If you have any doubts, read the recently published book of his letters. They reveal a man whose compassion for other people is deep and earnest, and whose spiritual life is based on faith in a loving God, not a vengeful one."
|"I am the Anti-Christ".....Ray-Gun Ronnie||critmass|
Nov 5, 2003 8:19 PM
|WAKE UP ITS TELEVISION.I guess to some expression is only allowed if it doesn't strike Ed Gillespie the wrong way. But then television is known for its accuracy. I guess you haven't watched Fox lately.
When Showtime ran it's absurd, cartoon like depiction of Dubya's post 9/11 activities, the DNC chairman didn't start to whine and threaten boycotts, apparently thinking that most Americans would see it for what it was: a piece of old Soviet style propaganda.
Even if Ray-Gun is portrayed as the anti-christ or as a weak, idiotic homophobe who is often controlled by an overbearing wife...IT'S TELEVISION DURING SWEEPS! I would be more than happy to argue that Ray-Gun's lack of action on the Aids epidemic cost many lives and much misery and that his refusal to implement the core recommendations of his own Aids Commission says a lot about his attitude towards the subject.
RNC Chairman, who I have no problem calling a crypto-fascist, Ed Gillespie:
"I requested Showtime to allow a panel of historians and people who knew the Reagans to review the program for accuracy before it airs". Then he says that if the program isn't reviewed a disclaimer about accuracy should be run every 10 minutes at the bottom of the television screen. His first statements when the series was scheduled for CBS were about words in a script that he had only heard rumors of.
Accurate in the eyes of the RNC??????? Orwellian demands??????? Reagan Image hysteria?????? Not accurate because it wasn't reviewed by the RNC?????
Read your references and see how many actual WORDS are the object of all this farcical nonsense. But then has ANYONE making comments or demands seen the final edited version of the series?????????? NO
I suggest that the program be about all the lies Ray-Gun Ronnie used to keep his war in Central America going. You know the ones where Daniel Ortega was such a threat to the U.S, or no arm sales to Iran, or no funding of the contras..hmmmmmm that reminds me of Dubya and Saddam.
11/05/03 Centcom: One 1st Armored Division solider died from a gunshot wound at a checkpoint in Baghdad at approximately 7 p.m. Nov. 4