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This really bothers me...(31 posts)

This really bothers me...ClydeTri
Oct 21, 2003 9:22 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/10/21/coma.woman/index.html

1) No written will exists.
2) Parents are willing to legally sign documents accepting all responsibility for their daughter.
3) Allowing somebody to die over two weeks from starvation is CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT.
4) A person would be arrested if they killed their dog or cat in a similiar manner as being done here.
5) Why doesnt the husband just let the parents take her and file for divorce? He is already living with another woman whom he has pregnant. So, it isnt some moral issue.
6)Where are all the human rights groups? She is a human being, a living person, and she is going to undergo a slow and painful death of starvation and dehydration.
7)If I were her parents, I would consider doing a body snatch and getting her out of the state.
It should, it's sad.128
Oct 21, 2003 9:51 AM
They wouldn't let her die uncomfortably though (3).

Human rights advocates may see the issue as a 'right' to die, too.

Hard to say if this is a case where the humane thing to do is 'let' her die.

#7 would be something....
Ahem. Where is this additional information coming from?Kristin
Oct 21, 2003 10:10 AM
How do you know he's living with a woman?? And that here is no written will? etc. You must either know the family or have another source, cuz I'm not seein' it in that article.
Ahem. Where is this additional information coming from?ClydeTri
Oct 21, 2003 10:14 AM
Been reading articles on this for a couple weeks and I watch the talking head shows on cable in the evenings. If you wish for me to google the will and living with a woman part, will find verification..might do that anyway..brb
his current "living" situationClydeTri
Oct 21, 2003 10:24 AM
This is slightly differnet than what I said, says he already has another child...tv has been saying his g/f is pregnant now also..will keep looking
http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/ap/ap_story.html/National/AP.V4224.AP-Comatose-Woman.html;COXnetJSessionID=1V3KrtJIq7qiU6tWS0vLqomuIWTh2lAk76qe1cDjAA42YNRr4IrA!659659159?urac=n&urvf=10667599468400.7520088482702358
READ THIS ARTICLEClydeTri
Oct 21, 2003 10:28 AM
quotes from it:
"Michael Schiavo declined interview requests through his attorney. Schiavo and his fiance, who have lived together since the mid-`90s, have one child and are expecting another.

Terri Schiavo did not leave written directives, such as a living will. In some states, that might be enough to keep her alive.

But the Florida case has been built on testimony from Michael Schiavo, his brother and sister-in-law that Terri Schiavo made casual statements to them that she would not want artificial life support in the event of a medical calamity."

much more good reading at:
http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/7002611.htm
The part that bothers me...No_sprint
Oct 21, 2003 11:08 AM
Is that others must jump in.

To me, it's completely understandable the position the husband and others are taking. I don't have a written will explicitly stating and detailing some things that I've mentioned to others important to me about when I pass. I surely expect them to consider my wishes and reasonably carry them out without others getting themselves involved just because they happen to feel something that I don't, and worst of all, after the fact! Those wishes include this same situation. No vegetative state for me, no thanks.

Next, I think it would be far more wierd if the guy didn't move on. It's been a long time.

There would certainly come a point if I were him that I'd say, *ok, you got it, you want it? take care of her, even though she doesn't want to live like this, you must understand* (according to him and others).
however...ClydeTri
Oct 21, 2003 11:12 AM
her parents are hardly "non-related" others...they have a definite emotional stake in this..and, since they have offered to legally accept all responsibility for her, why doesnt he just divorce her, let her parents have her, and walk away?
however...No_sprint
Oct 21, 2003 11:15 AM
Understood, thus my last comments, there might come that point. People are wierd though, some are so committed that they'll deny all medical attention til they themselves are dead, just because they somehow don't *believe* in it.
Its not as simple as that ClydeKristin
Oct 21, 2003 11:35 AM
Judging others from such a distance rarely is accurate. There are so many emotions involved with this. I can imagine that there are likely loving intentions mingled with feelings of guilt and shame on both sides. Not at all uncommon when death is involved. Loss makes us angry and hurt. Resentment grows easily--especially when we cope with loss differently than another person near us. Are those of use in this forum truly in a position to decide what's best here? I know I'm not. I simply wish the best for everyone involved, no matter what the final outcome. They all have a very long emotional journey ahead of them. I also wish them reconciliation.
while not being down that road...ClydeTri
Oct 21, 2003 12:28 PM
My father had a heart attack and lay in a coma for five weeks in 2000 before we took him off the machines. He stayed on for about another week before passing. He was however fed and watered during all that time. So, I have somewhat been down that road as we had to make a decision to take my dad off the machines...

It was hard, very hard, but all the family was in agreement. Now, had some of the rest of the family had not been in agreement, I dont know what would have been felt. The part that gets me is that the mom and dad are willing to legally accept all responsibility, and since the husband has already moved on with his life, being engaged and having children, I just sense he should let them have their wishes and he move on.
I completely agree with youKristin
Oct 21, 2003 11:27 AM
I think its a sad, but understandable situation. I suspect, from a distance, that the parents are having a hard time letting go of their daughter. Not uncommon for people to reject the loss of a loved one who actually dies. How much harder for them to let go of her when she is somewhere in the balance. But I understand the husbands frustrations too. And I see that he is trying to move on. Probably lots of feelings of guilt on both sides of the fence. Sad, sad, sad; but also a personal matter that doesn't belong in America's living room.

As a complete aside, what the heck is sticking out of the a$$ of those Louis Garneau bibs in the JensonUSA add?? Now THAT is truly troubling me!!
I haven't seen the ad, maybe it's the same thing theNo_sprint
Oct 21, 2003 11:30 AM
Yakima girl has on/or is doing with her nose. :)
A twist to the storyPaulCL
Oct 21, 2003 11:50 AM
I was listening to the Sean Hannity show on the radio on a couple of days ago. This woman's father was the guest. He had some very interesting and damning statements.

"Dad" couldn't understand why the courts were allowing his daughter to die - very understandable in my opinion. But here's the twist....why would the husband want her to die?? "Dad" offered the husband $500,000 five years ago to walk away from the situation - the dollar amount then currently left over from a legal settlement. The husband said no. "Dad" is convinced that the motive to allow the woman to die is that the husband caused the original injuries to his wife via a beating ("Dad" says corroborated by MDs). Ifso, the husband would be in big trouble if this young lady ever awoke from her coma.

I have no written proof of this accusation. This is just what I listened to for 1/2 hour on Fridays (I think) Sean Hannity show. Perhaps the "Dad" is making wild accusations to force the police to look into the situation and thus keep their prime witness alive. Whatever the truth, the parents are desperately trying to keep their daughter alive. It makes no sense why the husband just won't let go of the situation. IMHO. Paul
That sounds pretty far-fetchedmickey-mac
Oct 21, 2003 9:17 PM
From what I've read, doctors don't seem to be in serious disagreement about her being in a persistent vegetative state. I've never heard that anyone is giving her any remote chance of regaining consciousness, let alone regaining the ability to communicate clearly enough to comment on the cause of her condition. Also, if cops and the DA thought they had sufficient information to prosecute the husband based on physical evidence, why wouldn't they at least take a shot? After all, it is Florida.
The whole thing is sad and strange, but what I would ....Live Steam
Oct 22, 2003 6:39 AM
like to know is why would her parents want to keep her alive when she has no quality of life? If she is in a vegetative state, why would they want to continue to keep her that way? This is just the flip side of the issue. I don't believe that even if the allegation is true that the woman would be able to recollect what happened to her should a miracle occur. Keeping her alive in the condition she is in could be viewed as being selfish on the part of the parents.

I also wonder if there are some other legal issues for the husband causing him to desire that her life support be withdrawn. Is there a life insurance policy he will collect on? Can he legally divorce her if she does not participate in the divorce?

Sean Hannity hey? He's even a bit much for me :O)
life insurancePaulCL
Oct 22, 2003 6:53 AM
Once again, according to the father on Sean Hannity. There is a life insurance policy, but it is a minor amount...less than $100,000. Don't get me wrong, $100m is a good amount but not enough to allow your wife to die. The woman's father and Hannity agreed that the insurance money wasn't even part of the picture.

A friend and I had this discussion a few weeks ago about life insurance. In our 20's, just married, no kids we each had $100m policies. Seemed like a lot of money. Fast forward to age 41, three kids, big mortgage, lifestyle, etc...$100m to support my family is pennies. My coverage is several million now. Hmmm...better not let the wife know that one....better not piss her off....
She doesn't watch a lot of Forensic Files or CSILive Steam
Oct 22, 2003 7:07 AM
does she? If so you better hire a food taster :O)

So what is up with this story then? Maybe he just can't stand knowing that she is in such a horrible state and he is going to move on into a new life. Maybe he wants to move on and knows that once he does, meaning divorce, he can't "help" her any more. She will lay there until her parents say it's OK. What happens after her parents pass and she is still alive? Who becomes her guardian? The State? Maybe the husband has more compassion than is being portrayed. He could have taken the 500k.

We put animals down out of compassion because they are suffering or lack quality of life, yet we don't treat human life on the same terms. Not judging, just wondering why the difference.
No she doesn't....thank goodnessPaulCL
Oct 22, 2003 7:54 AM
You are right. The husband is being demonized in the press, but he may be the most compassionate one of the bunch. I know that if my wife was lying in a vegatative state for 13 years with no hope of recovery, she would want her family (me and our kids) to get on with our lives. How does the husband move to the next stage of life if his wife is still alive in this condition?? You can file for divorce, take the money, walk away but as long as she is alive, it would be a part of his daily life. Life is for the living. Maybe this guy has made the most difficult decision of all.

My wife, an MD, explains how everyone one expresses that they wouldn't want their family member to live in a veg. state for years and years, to die peacefully, etc...until it is time for that decision. In 100% of the cases, the family expects a miracle to occur. Hence, "pulling the plug" is SO difficult. The husband of this woman has accepted her fate, while her parents seem to be grasping at straws. IMHO

...hmmmmm....maybe I'll take a REALLY big policy out on my wife. That will give her second thoughts about cutting my brake line.......just kidding. She would never want to be left alone raising three children.
I thought the same...No_sprint
Oct 22, 2003 11:55 AM
why are they so bent on keeping her as is? Hospice care, basically in an eyes open coma, what joy could the parents possibly receive?
re: This really bothers me...cmgauch
Oct 21, 2003 11:16 AM
FWIW, from what I've been told by my dad's doctors, death by starvation/dehydration is rather pain-free and serene. I hope they were right. Once you decide to opt out of the feeding tube, they advise against hydration as they say this only heightens the patient's sense of pain & needlessly prolongs their life.

What a tough situation for all of those involved, very difficult for us to judge from the outside.

Maybe we could take this as another lesson to have your affairs in order: living wills, healthcare advance directives and such.
from what they said on tv...ClydeTri
Oct 21, 2003 11:21 AM
on of the talking head shows, it can be somewhat painless IF and only IF they do some heavy medication along with it. They were saying on tv that there were under the impression that might not happen in this case....
from what they said on tv...cmgauch
Oct 21, 2003 11:36 AM
But she's under the care of hospice. They are really good about treating pain, although it can be difficult to determine if your comatose patient is in pain, and if so how much.
Just to go on the record........MR_GRUMPY
Oct 21, 2003 12:56 PM
If my brain checks out, and my body keeps on tickin', I hope someone ends it after a month or so.
WAIT A SECOND.......... Some folks might say that about me NOW.
I find it heartbreaking andjtolleson
Oct 21, 2003 12:58 PM
morally wrong. I don't know where to draw the euthanasia line, because I'm not patently opposed to it in circumstances of brain death or ongoing suffering, but this case doesn't come close to justifying starving this woman.

I cried when I saw the news coverage.
I did also...........Len J
Oct 21, 2003 3:34 PM
but as I've read and listened to this, it appears that she is a pawn between the Mother & Father & the Husband. I question all of their motives. Sad, terribly sad.

What do you do when you have conflicting medical opinions about her consciousness, as well as her probability of survival, coupled with parents that "appear" (at least to me) to be unwilling to let go, unable to rationally make a decision that is not about their needs but about hers? I've listened to several interviews with the father & came away sad for him that his focus is always on he & his wife, rarely on his daughter.

The husband comes across as a sleze. This poor woman is trapped between three dysfuntional people. (IMO)

Without her wishes known, and without a clear medical prognosis, what do you do?

A real lesson in getting your house in order.

Len
Jeb Bush has signed bill .....ClydeTri
Oct 21, 2003 1:02 PM
Jeb has or will be signing a bill today basically allowing more time to evaluate this situation, she will go back on water and feeding....
Does the governor have the power to vacate a court order?jtolleson
Oct 21, 2003 1:06 PM
I mean, other than things specifically set out in state constitutions like pardons and clemency?

I'm all for restoring this woman's food and water but I've been very puzzled by the role of the governor in this. What with that pesky seperation of powers and all.
the article detailing...ClydeTri
Oct 21, 2003 1:10 PM
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-fschiavo21xoct21,0,23471,print.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines
Root of all evilfiltersweep
Oct 21, 2003 3:21 PM
"The Schindlers accuse Michael Schiavo, who collected more than $1 million in malpractice settlements stemming from his wife's collapse, of trying to remove the tube so that he can keep the money and pursue a new relationship. He denies the charge, countering that his in-laws are angry because they didn't receive any of the money. "

Says it all...
That's just sick.baylor
Oct 21, 2003 9:02 PM
It is sick if that was his motive, and even sicker that he would accuse parents of trying to save their child's life out of financially-motivated vindictiveness.