|The Kay report on WMD||moneyman|
Oct 6, 2003 11:33 AM
|Either I missed it here, or no one has commented on the report that David Kay gave to a closed Congressional hearing last Thursday. The news services were all agog at the fact that WMDs had not been found, yet that is not the whole truth. If Kay's report (the unclassified version) is read through, it is really disturbing as to what his team HAS found and how difficult their task is. Whereas many opponents of OIF (read the report to find out what that means) are calling "foul", Kay's report clearly shows that there was plenty of cause for concern prior to the invasion, and there is STILL plenty of cause for concern.
It really is fascinating. Read it at http://www.cia.gov/cia/public_affairs/speeches/2003/david_kay_10022003.html.
Your comments welcome.
|As David Kay said, there's no smoking gun ...||HouseMoney|
Oct 6, 2003 12:49 PM
|which is what a majority of the media outlets have reported. While those on the right will point to the report in its entirety (chemical & biological agents, programs, etc. , including some that were still active even after the conflict began), those on the left are going to believe what they want.
This is an interim report, and I suspect more will follow.
|Why bother moneyman?||Live Steam|
Oct 6, 2003 2:26 PM
|It is apparent that if you hold the opinion that the war was justified or that the liberal left/media are in many was, painting a different picture of reality in order to hurt the Bush re-election bid, or if it understood that you are conservative and hold any opinion at all, you will open yourself up to being ridiculed, labeled and attacked unjustly.
I get called imbalanced by someone professing to be a big shot international banker. That's a laugh on many levels. First, how many other successful, big shot international bankers do you think are wasting their time lurking on Internet web forums days, nights and weekends, spinning their nonsense and engaging people they believe to be "imbalanced"? Second, if I am imbalanced , what does that say about the person making the claim, when that the same person has been responding to my posts and making an argument against my positions? Lastly, the first rule for the forum is never enforced -specific reasons why we remove certain messages: The message insults or degrades another member of the community. Me, the imbalanced one, have always followed that rule by never making a "personal" attack on a fellow forum member. I have opposed another's views, but I have never initiated a personal attack through name calling, belittling or disparaging one's intellect. To me that is puerile and contemptuous and I'm the one that gets ridiculed for being small-minded. I guess it isn't small-minded to say "Do you wear a helmet when you ride?" or "I think the density of your head might be sufficient protection from impacts." or "Something is wrong with your brain." in response to a post with an opposing opinion.
I guess it is forum fashionable to ridicule and deride Live Steam on the Non-cycling forum! I am sure there is something to be proud of in that honor. I just wish I was accorded the same courtesy I accord those with whom I disagreed. It's not fun participating on this board any more and I am reluctant to continue to do so. I guess that will make some of the rabid liberals very happy!
|And Jesus thought he had a tough time on earth.||Hot Carl|
Oct 6, 2003 3:13 PM
|I am sure that all persecuted conservatives will be rewarded with 1,000 virgins upon arrival in heaven.|
|that doesn't sound so good||DougSloan|
Oct 7, 2003 3:47 PM
|Heck, I don't want no virgins. I want some experienced women! Virgins are for 19 year olds (or whatever age these days). ;-)
|For the record, I also think Czardonic is mentally imbalanced||TJeanloz|
Oct 6, 2003 3:35 PM
|And OldEd is a couple of french fries short of a happy meal.
And it's actually the fact that you consider me a rabid liberal that makes me believe that you are completely unable to have any thought beyond a knee-jerk reaction to anybody who disagrees with you.
And furthermore, I do not profess to be a big shot. I am a very little shot. I don't even get paid.
|Huh? I just saw this. And I've always been so||OldEdScott|
Oct 7, 2003 11:33 AM
|kind and respectful to you, TJ. That's where a generous heart gets you with capitalists, I suppose.|
|Generous hearts make me skeptical (nm)||TJeanloz|
Oct 7, 2003 11:47 AM
|I've consistently found Czardonic's posts well thought out...||bicyclerepairman|
Oct 8, 2003 11:59 AM
|I wish I could express myself as clearly...'mentally inbalanced' is a cheap shot. If you deal with specifics and disagree, I can respect that. Specifics can be dissected, discussed, refuted. Smears are different.|
|go cry to your mama||MJ|
Oct 7, 2003 12:32 AM
|maybe she'll care - what a load of self-serving crap
you are incapable of making a coherent argument - you actually make other more reasonable and intelligent conservatives wince when they read your illogical, illconceived and poory though out posts - it makes us "Dumocrats" laugh that you hold yourself out as the beacon of the right
perhaps if you could pull it together to actually make a point you'd be worth engaging - but you don't and may not be capable - your endless stream of insults is almost always based on misunderstanding the core elements of a debate - a case in point is your clear grasp of statistics demonstrated below
and by the way - if you thinkg the media in the US is liberal you live in f*$%ing Disneyland and should be sectioned to a mental health hospital
if you do leave the forum - at least it'll allow the conservatives here to put forward intelligent positions and reason with those that disagree with them rather than your juvenile name calling rants
|Why bother moneyman?||moneyman|
Oct 7, 2003 7:10 AM
|The whole point of my spending time on this forum is because I enjoy the lively exchange that sometimes includes ridicule and personal attacks. Its not all jokes and funsies as though we were bellied up to the bar with our pals. People wear their passions on their sleeves, and sometimes they get upset, especially when they seem to hit a brick wall with regard to convincing their opponent of the worthiness of the argument. That's when the differences become personal and off-topic. I have taken part in that tactic at times with czardonic, who is conspicuous by his recent absence. I don't believe I ever started the personal attack exchange, but I am just as guilty for having participated in it.
I saw this same kind of exchange on MTBReview several years ago. Talk about lively! Some of those exchanges would curl your hair. On of the most arrogant perpretators on the board was dr. hoo. He and I got in a couple of knock-down, drag outs about religion that were pretty exciting. The end result? He and his wife spent two days at my house a few summers back, and we all rode some pretty good trails, even though I had to wait for him a lot. I can't see myself inviting czardonic to my house, though, just as it is unlikely I will receive an invitation to join his family for dinner anytime soon. But I still get a perverse pleasure verbally jousting with him.
You obviously can do what you want with regard to staying or leaving, but it would take a lot more than what you have endured to make me leave. Don't take it so personally. This is entertainment, after all, not finding a cure for cancer.
|Point of clarification:||dr hoo|
Oct 7, 2003 8:14 AM
|You had to wait for me on the CLIMBS, mr. pokey cautious downhiller. I blame the altutude.
And the extra downhill bike I carry around my waist didn't help either.
|Ooooh! Sticks and stones may break my bones||moneyman|
Oct 7, 2003 1:14 PM
|But "mr. pokey cautious downhiller" is the best you could come up with? Must be midterms and you are preoccupied.
It was fun, though. I still have the turtle on my workbench.
Oct 7, 2003 3:51 PM
|I'd love to go on a ride with everyone/anyone here, but only if they'd slow down for me. Heck, my wife and I disagree on nearly every political issue, and we manage to stay civil with one another. I wouldn't think it would be too hard for some internet bike groupies. Further, I'll even put up anyone who want to come and stay. Trails or roads, your choice... (I'm serious.)
|I'll ride with (almost) anyone||dr hoo|
Oct 8, 2003 8:26 AM
|And given that my top gear on the road bike is a 50-14, I doubt I will be riding away from anyone. However, on a flat sprint, I will give it my best shot.
We will be in Tahoe for a couple weeks next summer. Condo on the rim trail :) That would be pretty close to you right? Assuming I don't piss you off before then, maybe we can work something out and get together. I'll post when plans get solidified.
|Hang in there, Steam! I'm imbalanced too, and I'm a commie!||OldEdScott|
Oct 7, 2003 11:42 AM
|It's not a liberal conspiracy against you -- it's a Jeanloz conspiracy against the rights of Stupid People to spout nutty opinions! That's US! Stand up, Steam! Stand with me! Stupid People of the World, Unite! We have nothing to lose but our shackles!|
|Hang in there, Steam!||bic|
Oct 7, 2003 3:36 PM
|stick around, I don't post much but enjoy reading yours|| |