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Did they really make that big of a mistake?(16 posts)

Did they really make that big of a mistake?ClydeTri
Oct 1, 2003 7:12 AM
http://www.theparisnews.com/story.lasso?wcd=8824
and
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-band-nazi-flag,0,5422665.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines

The more I think about it, after initial shock, the less I think the school did something really wrong. Poor taste? Maybe, but not nearly to the level being accused of maybe.

Whats that saying, those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it? You can turn on the History Channel, A&E, Discovery, etc and see hours upon hours on the Nazi's. Were they glorifying the Third Reich? If so, then it was wrong. Were they merely reminding all of WWII and the involved countries? The mere showing of a symbol in itself is wrong? Or can it be used to teach?
Thoughts?
yesmohair_chair
Oct 1, 2003 7:41 AM
There's enough coverage in history books and on TV so that the Nazis will never be forgotten. I don't think we need to parade their flags around at celebrations. Definitely in poor taste.
poor taste, yes ...sacheson
Oct 1, 2003 8:15 AM
... but I think this is a prime example of how ignorant Americans are. They saw a symbol and reacted.

The band also displayed the Japanese flag. I'd say in the scope of WWII, Americans should be more offended by that than the Nazi flag.
Japanese also practiced genocide..ClydeTri
Oct 1, 2003 8:19 AM
The japanese also practiced genocide in WWII and had many document atrocities including use of humans in medical research. Somehow the "rising sun" flag does not cause the blood to boil at the same fever as the Nazi flag.
ignorant?mohair_chair
Oct 1, 2003 8:29 AM
Wow, seems like you've been waiting a long time to use that comment. I don't see how this indicates ignorance of Americans in any way.

True, they saw a symbol and reacted. So what? The Nazi flag is a symbol of evil, imhumanity, death, destruction, etc. There is nothing good associated with the Nazis. So what should the reaction be? Nice use of colors??? What do you think the reaction would be in Germany today (where it is outlawed)? Holland? Belgium? France? Russia? Probably the same as in ignorant America.

What do they do where you live, applaud it?

By the way, the band also played the Nazi anthem.
I ask you mohair...ClydeTri
Oct 1, 2003 9:30 AM
Why did they not react to the japanese flag that stood for the same things in WWII? Ignorance maybe?
I ask you mohair...mohair_chair
Oct 1, 2003 10:36 AM
I wasn't there, so I don't know. How do you know they didn't?

It's entirely possible that no one noticed the Japanese flag because it doesn't have the dramatic appearance of the Nazi flag. I'm sure all eyes were focused on the Nazi flag to the exclusion of all others, because it's appearence was so shocking. You can sit there dispassionately and read an account of this online and wonder why all flags weren't considered and why all WWII enemies weren't equally jeered, but that's ridiculous. If Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, and an unknown guy walk on to the field and the unknown guy immediately sets himself on fire, who do you think the crowd is going to focus on? Does that make the crowd ignorant?

It's also entirely possible that many can't identify the Japanese flag of that era. On the other hand, everyone knows what a Nazi flag looks like.

I wonder if Nazi allies like Hungary, Romania and Finland had flags there, too. Fair is fair.
That is naive and disingenuousLive Steam
Oct 1, 2003 10:44 AM
to say that people wouldn't recognize the Japanese rising sun on a flag. It's a bull's-eye for goodness sakes. How could anyone miss it? They responded poorly and there is no excuse for it, period.
you are rightmohair_chair
Oct 1, 2003 10:50 AM
You should call up the school and register your complaint that the Japanese flag wasn't jeered like the Nazi flag was. Maybe at the next game, they can make a formal apology to Japan and present the flag so that the crowd can have a fair chance to jeer it.

You should also call the Japanese Embassy in Washington, and ask for their cultural promotion officer. Explain to the guy that Japan should do more to educate Americans on the appearence of their WWII-era flag so that Americans will know when to jeer it at high school football games. I'm sure they'll launch a nationwide campaign to eliminate the ignorance that permeates American culture.
If I may...Kristin
Oct 1, 2003 11:44 AM
If I may toss out a slightly different hypothetical? Which flag would bring more hostility, were it to be flown at a Mets game? One with Osama's face, or one with Sudam's face? Sudam has killed more people than Osama. He has engaged in genecide. He has been oppressing and killing for many more years than Osama. But I garantee we'd me more outraged by Osama's flag than Hussains. Why? It hits home. Fly the same 2 flags over Bagdad and Sudams may attract more outrage. (Not really sure on that one, though.) My point is that this is a predominatly a Jewish town. How much effect did Japan's activities in the war have on Jews? Not really that much--certainly not directly. The Japanese army was killing other Aisians during the war. Repeat the scene in a different location, and you may see a different result.
ignorant? Yes the poor response was ignorant!Live Steam
Oct 1, 2003 10:11 AM
"We had kids being cursed and things thrown at them. They were taken back, Grissom said."

Jews were not the only people who suffered under Hitler's rein. The behavior of the people doing the above is no better than those they believe to be vile and offensive. There are symbols that hurt and remind others of injustices they may have suffered, all around us. Acting poorly in retaliating is not acceptable behavior.
The Marketplace of Ideas53T
Oct 1, 2003 10:51 AM
This is how it's suposed to work. In it's most basic form, someone waves a Nazi flag and someone else throws garbage at him. Throwing garbage or old vegtables is a traditional and proteced form of expression, or at least it should be.

Disclaimer, my eye. If the crowd was really paying attention, they would have booed and thrown stuff at the disclaimer announcer.

Interesting point about the Japanese flag. The Rising Sun is something I always associate with inhuman POW camps and "the enemy". I guess the similarity with today's simplified flag serves to dampen the reaction the Rising Sun receives.
Rule #1 about public demonstration.Kristin
Oct 1, 2003 8:03 AM
Make sure everyone knows who's side you're on!!! I believe the groups claims their intentions were innocent. But why didn't someone consider that the sudden appearance of a Nazi flag could have been misunderstood by the crowd? This easily could have been avoided by printing and distributing a flyer before the program, explaining the purpose of a Nazi symbol during the cerimony. The onlookers would have been prepared for it. I suspect that many people were confused, thinking it was some rebellous act intended as an attack. That was my first impression when I saw the replay last night.

There are some who are over-reactoring to this. The band director has apologized and explained his intentions in a way that people should be able to understand and accept. He should be forgiven, but still scolded for short-sightedness. Those who are not satisfied with that are being reactive. Just remember, old wounds run deep and the reactors could benefit from some mercy and patience. The band director should have forseen that he would re-open old wounds. Too bad he did not.
Uhum! You should have read ..Live Steam
Oct 1, 2003 10:09 AM
the entire article. "A disclaimer describing the show was read prior to the band performing, but that apparently wasn't enough, according to Grissom."
What was the disclaimer?Kristin
Oct 1, 2003 11:30 AM
I read the article...until it began to drag on. I did read that statment, but it didn't mean much since it doesn't indicate what the disclaimer was.
Also, it was "read"Kristin
Oct 1, 2003 11:32 AM
As in read into a micorphone? At a highschool sporting event? During half time? Before the show? Who did they think was going to listen?