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73% rise in heating bill this winter!(24 posts)

73% rise in heating bill this winter!ColnagoFE
Sep 17, 2003 10:36 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~33~1636679,00.html

so much for the deregulation of the utility companies saving us $.
No nukes! No nukes! Why is my gas bill so high? nmContinental
Sep 17, 2003 11:09 AM
didn't anyone pay attention to California?mohair_chair
Sep 17, 2003 11:27 AM
When applied to the power industry, deregulation is just a fancy word meaning "consumers are guaranteed to get screwed."
Energy isn't deregulated in ColoradoTJeanloz
Sep 17, 2003 11:39 AM
Xcel, as the article points out, is highly regulated in Colorado. The article is about the Company asking the State for the right to charge more. Where you're getting screwed has more to do with dependence on natural gas, which historically wasn't piped out of Colorado and Wyoming, but now is exported to other states.

Coloradans are also relatively ignorant of things like insulation. When I bought my house, I had all the insulation re-done (including windows). Cut my winter spending by 70%. It did cost more than I saved in the short run though...
Why are Coloradoans ignorant to insulation?sacheson
Sep 17, 2003 12:24 PM
As a Coloradoan, I have to say I disagree ... but before I go spouting off, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

As for piping the Nat Gas out ... yeah, for some reason, we (as Coloradoans) seem to really f' ourselves with exporting resources. We did it with water, now it seems we're doing it with Natural Gas.

Selfishly, I think if the government (either local, state, or federal) implements a measure that drives the cost of a necessary item up for the locals, that organization should be responsible for offsetting said cost to those locals. I mean, someone (albeit, not Exel according to the article) IS making money piping the gas out of the state - and we suffer. I think that's ridiculous.
Why are Coloradoans ignorant to insulation?TJeanloz
Sep 17, 2003 12:39 PM
I have no idea why Coloradans don't insulate. Probably because it doesn't get really cold on the Front Range (granted, there's more to Colorado than the Front Range, but that's where most of the people are). Every house I ever lived in there had single-pane windows and no insulation to speak of. I have no idea why. Just the way they build things.

As for natural gas being piped out, somebody is making money on it, but it's a market, it's not like you have any more right to cheap gas than anybody else. If they banned silver exports from Colorado, it would also be cheap there. By that logic, Texans shouldn't pay for gasoline and the rest of us should make do without.
i guess I haven't experienced the same ...sacheson
Sep 17, 2003 2:17 PM
... with the exception of college housing. But that's just my experience.

Regarding the piping stuff out of the state - I do agree with you, but the residents of this state are repeatedly in some bad situations from what seems to be poor political planning.

1) we sell obnoxious water rights to Lost Wages and San Diego, and in times of drought, Coloradoans go with out water, not LV or SD.

2) we create agreements with the over-burdened California power grid to supply them with extra power we generate, but have no provisions during peak months here and suffer.

3) this thing with the natural gas.

I see a trend with needed resources where Coloradoans are going with out when it comes to necessity resources that are generated within the state. I think it should be "allowing any extra to flow out of the state" - not sell off what you can and create a crisis locally. That's just bad ju-ju ... profitable business maybe, but ethically the wrong practices to employ.

And I disagree with your comment on silver and Texas gas. 1) I said needed resource. Silver is hardly that. 2) Texas DOES hoard their own electricity. They are on their own power network, and don't share what they produce outside the state. The gas thing is bogus since we draw such a relatively little amount of p/c resources from Texas.
slapdash construction 101lonefrontranger
Sep 18, 2003 4:19 PM
The damn housing developments have sprouted like mushrooms. They build them so fast, it's no surprise to me they don't insulate, half the time they can't even build the things right to begin with. I live in a 2-year old place that sprung a major leak over one of the window headers, the garage door opener wasn't grounded properly and about burned us down, and the floor joists creak like a nightingale floor in a spy novel.

Face it, the McMansions out here are really just $500,000 ghettos. I've never seen such cheaply built crap in my life.
$500k is definately not a mansion in the people's republicColnagoFE
Sep 22, 2003 8:26 AM
You'd be lucky to get anything that even resembles a mansion in boulder proper for much under 1.5 mill.
There are no McMansions in Boulder proper...TJeanloz
Sep 22, 2003 9:18 AM
I believe she's referring to Rock Creek, Niwot, Louisville, et. al.

Boulder proper, depending on your definition, is almost entirely relatively old construction.
trueColnagoFE
Sep 22, 2003 10:38 AM
Zoning laws make it pretty tough to scrape off a small house and build a gigantic one in its place. They have some pretty big monstrosities out around Niwot these days and I haven't done much cycling around the old Morgul Bismark since Rock Creek went in due to the increased traffic and poor road planning. It seems a lot of people with tons of $ to spend go slightly up into the mountains---like the Sugarloaf/Magnolia area and build their castles to themselves there.
Sunshine canyon is the best of both worlds (nm)TJeanloz
Sep 22, 2003 12:54 PM
Close to the city, but really pretty rural.
yup...I know quite a few who have moved thereColnagoFE
Sep 24, 2003 2:57 PM
Nice area. Once the kids are out of school I would love to live somewhere like that. Great road to ride on a bike too! Lots of twisties on the way down to make the descent interesting.
Erie (nm)lonefrontranger
Sep 22, 2003 4:25 PM
fortunately my house is pretty new and well insulated ;) (nm)ColnagoFE
Sep 17, 2003 12:30 PM
semanticsColnagoFE
Sep 17, 2003 12:37 PM
Maybe it isn't entirely deregulated, but it isn't the old state run monopoly it once was. Sure there are checks and balances put in place for obvious reasons, but in common usage it has moved from public monopoly to private corporation. Here's another interesting article:

http://www.thepbj.com/030201/a2.htm
Two words: Gas Included. nmKristin
Sep 17, 2003 11:54 AM
Okay, so I'm religated to 600 SF of living space. But I don't get a gas bill.
What's your assessment?Alex-in-Evanston
Sep 18, 2003 7:37 AM
When I was living in a shared heat condo my monthly assessment was $302. No shared facilities, no gardens, no parking lot. That's a lot of lettuce.

Alex
You're really going to hate me.Kristin
Sep 18, 2003 7:58 AM
$134
$302/month to heat a condo!!!!!! Ouch!!!! (nm)ColnagoFE
Sep 18, 2003 7:59 AM
Heat, water, grounds, roof, maintenance, garbage. (nm)Alex-in-Evanston
Sep 18, 2003 8:03 AM
still a lot of $ for a condoColnagoFE
Sep 18, 2003 8:09 AM
Of course I don't know what maintenance covers, I mow my own lawn and scoop my own driveway, and a new roof could cost me plenty if I ever need one, but I don't think I pay any more than that during the coldest months of the year for heat, garbage, water and routine maintenance. And that's for a 2600 square foot house. Is that based on actual usage or just a flat charge?
Its a flat charge per unitKristin
Sep 18, 2003 8:53 AM
It depends on how much square footage you own. You pay to cover all upkeep and maintenance on common property. If a pipe bursts in the common property, the association pays. The roof coverage is realy only for upkeep. If an entire roof replacement was needed I gaurantee the owners would see a "special assessment." It wouldn't be paid for out of the general funds.

$302 is high for the suburbs, but not for the city--and not with heat included. I had to hunt to find a heat included condo with a sub $200 assessment outside of city limits. However, for $134 you get what you pay for. Our grass is brown.
Flat charge.Alex-in-Evanston
Sep 18, 2003 8:54 AM
The condo association liked to keep a minimum kitty of $20,000 for emergencies and such. Assessments were occasionally varied based on the size of our wad, but never by more than 5%.

Shared heating cost, but individual responsibility for window maintenance and insulation is a very interesting little lesson in governance. My windows leaked like hell, but I wasn't going to pay $3,500 for new Pellas and only reap 1/16th of the cost benefit. I lobbied the board for full window replacement with some collective cost sharing the whole time I was there.

Strong central environmental policy!

Alex