|Update on Bustamante and MEchA||kilimanjaro|
Sep 3, 2003 12:45 PM
|ClyTri posted about Bustamante's past association with a student organization called MEchA. I hear a lot of outcries in the local (Southern California) AM talkheads about MEchaA's calling for repatriating Aztlan to Mexico, creating a "Republico del Norte", the group's sloagan "for the race, everything. For those outside the race, nothing," and lastly for Bustamente's refusal to formally condemn the sloagan and the group.
I even read the following http://slate.msn.com/id/2087366/ criticizm of Bustamante on Slate.com, who many consider flamming liberal.
I was intrigued and did a quick google search and could not come up with any MEchA sloagans that advocated for establishment of Aztlan, of excluding other groups etc. You can read a rebutal here http://www.azteca.net/aztec/mecha/racism-mecha.html. To summarize, MEchA is loosely affiliated student organization with no formal central body. It's main message is to encourage chicano education and combat racism.
I did not look too hard, so if someone can point to a website that has the "for the race everything..." slogan will you please pass the link.
Assuming that the retort is factually accurate about organization, bylaws etc, I find the whole thing troubling. Firt for what is passed as truth, second for a lack of a vigorous defence from both the liberal media and Bustamante. It reminds me of the Bush senior calling Dukakis of being a "card carrying member of ACLU" during the 88 presidential campaign.
|just looked at your slate article...||ClydeTri|
Sep 3, 2003 1:01 PM
|let me quote it:
On Fox News on Saturday, Bustamante was asked whether he renounced a slogan of the group: "For the race everything. For those outside the race, nothing."
He responded that he loved his culture and would represent the entire state if he became governor.
"My politics ... have grown to a point where I'm a very inclusive individual, and all you have to do is look at the politics I've shared and the kind of politics that I've had," Bustamante said.
When pressed a fourth time for a more direct answer, Bustamante said, "Racial separatism is wrong... You have to look at what people do, not just what they say, and I think I've demonstrated my ability." [Emphasis added]
Now I ask..what is wrong with an answer of : "Yes, I renounce that." ?????
Sep 3, 2003 2:19 PM
|If it isn't their slogan, why should he renounce it? Jumping through that kind of hoop is a loser's game. He was right to make his own personal convictions clear and leave it at that.|
|Well, it may not be their current official slogan but||OldEdScott|
Sep 4, 2003 5:51 AM
|it is certainly A slogan of the movement. So what? We old Fidelistas recognize it as a semi-clever twist on Fidel's "Con la revolución todo, contra la revolución nada."
Basically, it (the slogan) and the movement itself were/are expressions Bronze Power/pride, a lot like the Black Power movement of the '60s, and nothing at all for anyone to get seriously worked up about. 'Nationalism' in the context of the goofy American Left, generally means: We want to hang out together and wear cool ethnic clothes.' So be it. Only the Gabachos at Fox News could manage to create a tempest in this teapot.
I'm not suprised B. danced away from a clear renunciation of this position, because it's a perfectly honorable and defensible one. As a human being presumably proud of his past (and likely current) beliefs, he did the right thing. As a politcian, though, he was less than skillful. He's gotta learn that in politics the Right Thing to Say is not always the right thing, period.
|no no old ed...||ClydeTri|
Sep 4, 2003 9:44 AM
|i want politicians who say what they believe, clearly and to the point, no spinning, no talking around an answer....let the marbles fall and the people decide...|
|Yeah, get Bill Riley to run for office.||OldEdScott|
Sep 4, 2003 10:49 AM
|Actually, I agree. Wish it could be so. Problem is, politicians get CRUCIFIED in the press if they just let fly with their gut feelings.
Campaigns were better (and politicians more straight talking) in the era before television.
If you go back into political history, you'll see even the old guys were acutely conscious of 'spin.' The Founding Fathers were masters of it, and would argue for hours over phrasing.
Sep 4, 2003 1:22 PM
|Bill OReilly from Fox Tv or Bob Riley our current governor?|
|Typo. I meant the snarly one. nm||OldEdScott|
Sep 5, 2003 5:04 AM
Sep 3, 2003 1:05 PM
|Maybe they aren't saying it outright anymore, but they still include Aztlan in their name. That's the name they invented (which no one else uses, including Mexicans in Mexico) to cover the Southwest USA. It's a lot like Marxist organizations don't like to talk about being Marxist anymore. Drop the negative buzzwords and you'll get further.
If they really aren't advocating the return of "Aztlan" to Mexico, it would be wise if they would come out and say that, because it seems like a common misconception. You would think they would be anxious to correct it, but they aren't. That makes me think that they are playing the old game where they say nothing and let everyone come to their own conclusion. They have plausible denial now.
As a Californian, I've always found the whole thing humourous. The Spanish came, overthrew the Indians, then a couple of hundred years later there was a revolt and Mexico was born, then the USA showed up. If anyone deserves the land "back," I think the Mexico is lowest on the list! And somehow, I don't think Mecha advocates giving the land back to the Spanish or the Indians.
|didnt the Indians....||ClydeTri|
Sep 3, 2003 1:10 PM
|Didnt the Indians supposedly migrate from Asia across the Bearing Straight through Alaska? So, one could argue that we should give it back to Russia, or China, or somebody over that way...|
|didnt the Indians....||Jack9|
Sep 3, 2003 1:40 PM
|Who are you going to vote for Gov. Gang Bang?|
Sep 4, 2003 12:17 PM
|No Indians hold traditional beliefs that they migrated from Asia- and it is their own beliefs that are relevent.
Anthropologists are even a bit at a loss for how native Americans arrived here. Most tribal beliefs involve the ideas that they were always here, or they emerged from the earth, or from some island in the ocean.
|Here is the offending "El Plan Espiritual de Aztlán"||kilimanjaro|
Sep 3, 2003 2:08 PM
|along with commentary from someone "on the inside"
An actual defence.
I am not sure what to think. I would say that the Plan is certainly radical and outdated to say the least. However, it does not advocate violent takeover or repatriation of Aztlan.
After reading everything, I can see Bustamante's unwillingless to completely disavow the group. I also think it is fair to ding Bustamente a few points for not better clearifying himself. After all Tren Lott survives politically without ever disavowing his efforts to have the regulating body of his fraternity ban any affiliates admitting blacks while he was in college.
I suppose someone can point out that KKK only advocates defending "white culture".
|And the rest of us are PROUD of everything we did in the '70s?||cory|
Sep 3, 2003 2:30 PM
|Jesus Chr!st. Even assuming MEchA were a flaming liberal group (and what would be wrong with that, in a country that allows free expression?), Bustamente was, what, 20 years old, in college, at a time when radical ideas were the currency of the realm? I'm around his age, and I'd be more inclined to distrust somebody who DIDN'T pick a cause in those days. And don't even start talking about "what is passed as truth" when George W's in the White House.|
|Arnie's PROUD of what he did in the '70s...||PdxMark|
Sep 3, 2003 3:02 PM
|No shrinking violet, he. He was no girlie man.|
|And the rest of us are PROUD of everything we did in the '70s?||ClydeTri|
Sep 3, 2003 3:49 PM
|agree, HOWEVER, it is now 30 years later and he should clearly state he was wrong and stupid to have associated with the group. We all made and make mistakes. The smart people learn from them. The people with integrity will admit they made mistakes and that they were wrong. So many politicians, both sides, just want to play both sides against the middle. They dont give a d*mn about the people, they are out for their own power game.|| |