|The newest on the monument in Alabama...||ClydeTri|
Sep 3, 2003 9:53 AM
|The protests are over, the people have gone home,but, they left trash behind. The state of Alabama is having to hire cleaners including a steam cleaning company to clean up the hundreds and hundreds pounds of trash left behind.
One would think that these people who were there in support of that monument would make sure not to trash the outside of the courthouse up. Even if it wasn't all their trash, they should have made sure they picked up before leaving so they would not get blamed with it....
|Hey, ClydeTri. Any thoughts on from a local on. . .||czardonic|
Sep 3, 2003 10:16 AM
|. . .the religion/tax debate that is going on down there?
". . .last fall, Susan Pace Hamill, a Beeson theology student, published a master's thesis arguing that "Alabama's tax structure economically oppresses low-income Alabamians and fails to raise adequate revenues."
Hamill, a tax-law professor at the University of Alabama, spent her sabbatical studying Scripture at Beeson. Her 112-page thesis, published in the fall 2002 issue of the Alabama Law Review, is an attack not only on Alabama's regressive tax code -- which requires poor families to pay up to three times the percentage of income in state tax that wealthy families pay -- but on the Christians who permit such an injustice to persist.
In her thesis, Hamill stakes claims more reminiscent of Dorothy Day and the Catholic Worker Party than Pat Robertson and the religious right. Citing ancient precedents of land tenure rights and debt forgiveness, she says the Bible mandates a "minimum opportunity" for the poor. Lest anyone miss the point, she goes on to argue that "minimum opportunity" in contemporary America consists of a decent public education. Lest anyone miss that point, Hamill demonstrates that Alabama public schools fall so woefully short of adequacy that only a drastic increase in funds could fulfill the state's moral obligation." (http://www.prospect.org/webfeatures/2003/08/wilkinson-f-08-28.html)
|Hey, ClydeTri. Any thoughts on from a local on. . .||ClydeTri|
Sep 3, 2003 10:37 AM
|I had never read the tax issue tied with religion, so will only comment on the tax issue. Yes, the tax system down here is screwed up and needs reform. Is this the tax bill to do it? I have come to my personal conclusion we would be making another mistake by passing this one. The politicians, this bill is supported by both a majority of Dems and Reps politicians, not the mass public though. The politicians left so much of the bill wide open. They made no provisions for repeal or lowering of new taxes if the state starts having a balanced budget. They obviously would find a way to spend it. Also, they have used a advertising campaign that is very decieveing. They keep saying that taxes will be eliminated on families making less $40,000 or so. However those same ads do NOT say that property taxes are going up dramatically over the next few years in the bill. Even if you are a renter you pay increased property taxes since the landowner will pass that along in increased rent. Also, businesses will pass along property tax increases in increased cost to consumer. We, many of us voting NO, are offended by the misleading advertisements...there is much more to discuss on this issue. Bottom line, many of us feel the intent may be good, but the wrong bill at this time.|
|So, what about the moral aspect. . .||czardonic|
Sep 3, 2003 10:46 AM
|. . .and the argument that Christians have an obligation to ensure that their state laws (which is an extension of the electorate) recognize and provide for the needs of the poor?
If not with this bill, is there a general agreement with the principle?
|So, what about the moral aspect. . .||ClydeTri|
Sep 3, 2003 10:54 AM
|why asking me? I am hardly a religious person. If you notice all my posts about the monument have been somewhat neutral observations and legal questions.|
|Since the monument was such a huge issue in AL. . .||czardonic|
Sep 3, 2003 11:13 AM
|. . .I was just curious to know if the tax debate was getting as much play, especially among the same crowd that is so anxious to see religion elevated to its "proper" place in the public domain. Not that you were necessarily part of that crowd.|
|Since the monument was such a huge issue in AL. . .||ClydeTri|
Sep 3, 2003 11:51 AM
|The tax debate is getting huge airplay on tv/radio/newspapers, but, my impression is that the "crowd" is different, much different. This is real strange, main people backing the new tax are all politicians, repub and demo, and people who work for the state govt and schools...the mass public does not trust the politicians though, polls show the tax bill going down by about 30% if everybody shows up to vote...|
|That's a bit unfortunate. Not that I can throw any stones. . .||czardonic|
Sep 3, 2003 12:02 PM
|. . .from California.
Nevertheless, the idea of a Christian inspired socio/economic justice coming out of the South could spur a lot of useful discussion in this country about what we, as the "Land of Opportunity" or even a "Christian Nation" actually stand for. (I say the South because of its reputation as being more religious and more conservative.)
|That's a bit unfortunate. Not that I can throw any stones. . .||ClydeTri|
Sep 3, 2003 12:06 PM
|Churches are staying pretty quite on the tax bill...now, if you want them to rush to the pulpit to tell you how to vote, bring up a lottery or alcohol....still many rural counties in the south are dry...|
|just like in DC||Duane Gran|
Sep 3, 2003 11:44 AM
|When I lived in Washington DC I would have to clean up graffiti and various trash left behind by protesters. Why they would protest my neighborhood I'll never know, but they really trash the place. The fact is that most people in the nation don't realize that people live in DC.|| |