|Another interesting take on the Alabama monument...||ClydeTri|
Aug 28, 2003 7:29 AM
|Another interesting take has arisen on the Ten Commandments monument down here. In a nutshell the court decisions have allowed some stuff along these lines if they have some historical impact. Well, as this gets bigger and bigger possibly going to the US Supreme COurt, the Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court being suspended, thousands protesting, etc etc... at some point this monument takes on a historical context of its own and could be shown as an exhibit on government, the constitution, the courts, etc...|
Aug 28, 2003 7:37 AM
|It could be an exhibit, even at the Smithsonian, which is quasi-Governmental, no? But it could not be the centerpiece of a courthouse.|
|My own centrist view ...||OldEdScott|
Aug 28, 2003 7:52 AM
|is that displaying the 10 Comms in a judicial setting is, de facto, justified by historical context. Mosaic Law and all that. It's tethered to the very idea of Law. 'You're here to be tried for murder. See, look here, from the dawn of time, murder has been against the law.' It's existentially stripped of religious exhortation.
Stick them up in a school, though, and there's no underlying context, except to say 'See, Christianity is our preferred religion here.'
I really don't have a First Amendment problem with the Alabama display.
|Context and Intent||Jon Billheimer|
Aug 28, 2003 8:05 AM
|Although the Ten Commandments can arguably be viewed as a legal archetype, just as the blind goddess with the scales is, the clear intent of the Alabama judge and all the religious wingnuts who are supporting him is to advance a clearly religious agenda. Their view is that America is a Christian nation founded on Christian principles, therefore a semi-theocracy, at least. Their idea of religious freedom consists of the freedom for them to impose their views and concepts of religious morality on everyone else. They neither believe in religious pluralism or the separation of church and state. Listening to the sermons and speeches of the judge and his supporters pretty clearly demonstrates that.|
|Oh, he/they is/are a crackpot(s), all right.||OldEdScott|
Aug 28, 2003 8:09 AM
|But when you talk about Constitutional issues you gotta step back a bit. N!zis are crackpots too, but they have a right to pull on their jack boots and parade in Skokie.|
|As do these religious wackos...||Dwayne Barry|
Aug 28, 2003 8:14 AM
|have the right display the ten commandments wherever they want in a private and/or public context. The issue entirely rests upon the seperation of church and state and has nothing to do with "free speech" issues.|
|Agree. This is a clear-cut case or attempted establishment. . .||czardonic|
Aug 28, 2003 12:44 PM
|. . .and I doubt that even this Judge would deny it. He is not trying to squeak this monument in under some historical significance clause.|
|much ado about nothing||ColnagoFE|
Aug 28, 2003 8:05 AM
|I think this is just being played in the media as a big deal. Does the average Joe really care one way or another whether this monument stays or goes? It seems that only the extremists have a real passion for arguing it.|
|Well according to the ACLU...||Dwayne Barry|
Aug 28, 2003 8:08 AM
|lawyer on CNN last night, the Judaic ten commandments are not the same as the Christian (which I take it vary somewhat as well, not sure which version is on display in this instance), so to fit your justification they'd have to be changed. Plus, our law is derived from many sources not just Mosaic law. And if fact, there are "religious" displays in law settings that have not been objected to by the ACLU and are not controversial precisely because they have a historical context and can not be construed as the state advocating religion of a particular species.
Can anyone list the ten commandments? (or at least a popular version of them) Aren't there some real silly ones that no one takes seriously, especially in a legal sense? Idol worship, lord's name in vain, etc.
|10 commandments paraphrased, only 3 pertain to legal system||Continental|
Aug 28, 2003 10:19 AM
|1. have no other gods before me
2. don't worship idols
3. don't take God's name in vain.
4. Sanctify the holy day
5. Honor you father and mother
6. Don't murder.
7. Don't commit adultery
8. Don't steal.
9. Don't bear false witness.
10. Don't covet.
Commandments 1-4 are strictly religious commandments.
5 is good advise, but not the law.
7 is not the governments business
Breaking the 10th commandment is the American way of life.
This leaves us with don't kill, don't steal, and don't lie being the only commandments that pertain to the US legal system
|"From the dawn of time?" Does the Bible even say that? nm||czardonic|
Aug 28, 2003 12:38 PM
|Some people down here in bama...||ClydeTri|
Aug 28, 2003 8:44 AM
|I live in north bama..and there are many of us who see this a political ploy. Judge Roy Moore will run for Governor in the near future, and, this issue will probably help him more than hurt him..those of those who vote against him on this issue, would already be voting against him, while he will be grabbing alot of "middle" voters with this issue.....|
|obviously a political ploy...on both sides (nm)||ColnagoFE|
Aug 28, 2003 8:48 AM
|Why don't we carve them in Arabic!Put the tablets across Budda's||128|
Aug 28, 2003 8:48 AM
|belly, put a yamulka (sp) on his bald head and fly the Stars and Bars from his fist. Now there's a monument I;m sure the Judge could get behind. (oh, and a propeller on the yamulka too.)
Gee what a division religion causes and how amusing it can be to unite them.
|When God gave Robt. E. Lee the Tablets ...||OldEdScott|
Aug 28, 2003 9:15 AM
|Make a statue of THAT great moment in history and stick it up anywhere you damn well please in the South.|
|Wrong guy for Alabama||Turtleherder|
Aug 28, 2003 11:07 AM
|Now, if it were a statue of Bear Bryant bring down the tablets . . . .|| |