|Moment of weakness(?): disgusted by religion.||sn69|
Aug 12, 2003 8:14 PM
|I've spent the better part of the evening scouring through several Islamic websites trying to learn, attempting to broaden myself as an American, a Jew and a human. I've cross-references to Jewish websites and Christian ones as well. I have admittedly not delved into Hinduism, Buddism or Shintaoism.
What I've come to is this. Man is undeniably arrogant and utterly corrupt in his age-old insistence that any one's interpretation of a higher power is better than anyone else's, therefore rendering the first somehow superior and more deserving of life, wealth and prosperity.
This isn't a new revalation to me--I've long suspected it since my earliest indoctrinations in religous bootcamp at Sunday School. Nonetheless, I find myself becomming increasingly contemptuous of mankind's creations and machinations day by day.
Am I whacked? Dunno. Am I damned? Perhaps, but certainly not by the insistences of the arrogance of man. I believe in God, and I harbor a deeply seated spirituality that draws from a great many sources. But I DO NOT need a man (or woman) to tell me how to worship and/or get-along with the other kiddies in the great sandbox of life. I don't answer to man. I answer to myself and God--my God.
Short rant complete; I'm headed back to eBay for some more component window shopping.
|More like a moment of rationality, keep it up. nm.||HAL9010|
Aug 13, 2003 12:12 AM
|funny - compare and contrast - irony anyone?||MJ|
Aug 13, 2003 12:40 AM
|"Man is undeniably arrogant and utterly corrupt in his age-old insistence that any one's interpretation of a higher power is better than anyone else's, therefore rendering the first somehow superior and more deserving of life, wealth and prosperity."
"I don't answer to man. I answer to myself and God--my God."
|I agree with MJ!! I agree with MJ!!! (nm)||94Nole|
Aug 13, 2003 4:27 AM
|woohoo!! :-) nm||MJ|
Aug 13, 2003 9:01 AM
|I s'pose I shouda expanded upon that,||sn69|
Aug 13, 2003 7:13 AM
|specifically about how one is somehow obligated to answer to the presumption that man speaks for God with such clarity and inflexibility based one whatever religion one chooses. Blah blah blah.
To quote the toe-tapping, catchy, gitchy pop punk song of late: "Whatever."
I'm fallable. But at least I've got coffee this morning.
|Forget all this crap! I got something||OldEdScott|
Aug 13, 2003 7:23 AM
|that will answer your questions once and for all!|
|2.75 years left on the current contract||sn69|
Aug 13, 2003 8:04 AM
|After that and if I go civvie, then we can talk.|
|See, we liberals believe in a Drug Benefit entitlement! nm||OldEdScott|
Aug 13, 2003 8:28 AM
|just giving you a hard time - very funny though - :-) nm||MJ|
Aug 13, 2003 9:03 AM
|You're right...it was worth a guffah or three. nm||sn69|
Aug 13, 2003 9:06 AM
|You sure are.||Sintesi|
Aug 13, 2003 6:48 PM
|I'm sorry, but you must be put to death||MR_GRUMPY|
Aug 13, 2003 6:05 AM
|You have insulted ******* (insert favorite god), and must pay the price.|
|My guiding philosophy for my entire adult life||pitt83|
Aug 13, 2003 6:06 AM
|I hit a realization in my teen years. Perhaps out of teen rebelion and questioning everything, but as a consequence adopted your espousal as my guiding principal. It's all on you.
I find going to a building across town once weekly greatly unsatisfying. It seems more about the donuts than the spirituality.
Perhaps we're agnostic?
|You got donuts???? mmmm.....donuts||gregario|
Aug 13, 2003 6:25 AM
|I think organized religion and "my god/beliefs are better than yours" are the leading cause of evil/death/strife in this world. Catholics are killing the Protestants and vice versa, Hindus are killing the Buddhists (or whoever is killing who in India/Pakistan) Christians used to kill the heathens and are now killing abortion doctors, and Muslims are killing anyone and everyone that is an infidel. I was raised Catholic and haven't seen the inside of a church since the last wedding I went to. And don't get me started about Priests buggering little boys. The whole thing is corrupt. Some of the most racist, hypocritical people I know also wear their "christianity" on their sleeve.|
|And covered dish dinners w/ Ambrosia!||pitt83|
Aug 13, 2003 6:29 AM
|It seemed to me more about social circles than anything else. Not discounting the value of socializing; friends and social circles keep us happy and well being. I have other outlets for those needs than church.
If church is indeed about spirituality, I failed to feel that.
|green jello with carrots and cottage cheeze anyone? (nm)||ColnagoFE|
Aug 13, 2003 8:51 AM
|You got donuts???? mmmm.....donuts||Duane Gran|
Aug 13, 2003 6:39 AM
|The whole thing is corrupt. Some of the most racist, hypocritical people I know also wear their "christianity" on their sleeve.
Surely the "whole thing" isn't corrupt. There are a minority of people who shame the institutions, but a simple test of reason proves that the whole institution is not corrupt, just as the life work of Mother Teresa doesn't make Catholicism 100% saintly. Unfortunately, as fallible human beings it is hard to avoid hypocrisy, but it bothers me too. (disclaimer: Try as I may, I'm probably a hypocritical Christian)
|OK, I tend to exaggerate 140% of the time, but I get annoyed||gregario|
Aug 13, 2003 8:56 AM
|No, the whole thing is not corrupt. Or is it "Yes, the whole thing is not corrupt"? Or maybe what is corrupt is the institutions themselves and not necessarily all the members. Anyway, there are plenty of fine people that are Christians, Muslims, etc. that are just that, fine people.
I'm just unbelievably angry that 1. Cardinal O'Connor is NOT in PRISON for playing a shell game with these disgusting priests. 2. That I see these televangelists basically threatening ignorant people that unless they send money that something bad will happen to them. 3. That the Catholic Church pleads poverty to avoid paying settlements to abused children when they have billions in treasure and are tax exempt. 4. That fanatical Muslims think you should be killed if you insult Allah. 5. That some "Christian Pillar-of-the-Community" is really a racist who would never hire a black person. etc, etc....
I just don't like organized religion. I also don't like people trying to foist their beliefs onto me and saying I'm going to hell if I don't believe what they do.
Aug 13, 2003 7:27 AM
|We must go to the same "church" I, too, was raised Catholic and haven't seen the inside of a church since my children's last in-church performance.
My wife and children attend a Methodist church. She is certain that my avoidance of church has to do with being raised Catholic. Nope. It's the hypocritical holier-than-thou narrow-minded uber-christians that turn me off. There are several at her church. I know them, they come for me knowing I do not attend. I believe in God, but I don't need a structure to sit in on Sundays. I don't need some man or woman preaching at me. I feel closer to God (or nature, or life, or the lifeforce, etc...) on my earler morning rides than I could ever feel sitting in a pew.
OK....I'll get down off the soapbox now...this is not a good subject to bring up around my house. My wife and I are diametrically opposed on this issue. It put a lot of stress into our marriage a few years ago. Paul
|OK, Q: What do you ponder while in the saddle?||pitt83|
Aug 13, 2003 6:52 AM
|For me, it can be a cathartic brain dump. A confessional if you will. I've found myself considering how to approach situations with others, how to improve on problems I'm having; real self-help stuff. It helps sort it out. Therefore, if I'm working things out, isn't that a guiding principle of the church? Isn't that supposed to be a source of guidance?
If so, I'm doing that on my long Sunday AM rides.
|same here mostly, but sometimes...||ColnagoFE|
Aug 13, 2003 8:52 AM
|sometimes i just get a stupid song stuck in my head and it endlessly repeats for hours as i ride...hate when that happens!|
|Fundementalist believers are not and cannot be arrogant.||Continental|
Aug 13, 2003 6:53 AM
|True fundementalist believers do not have a personal interpretation of God. They are humble souls who do not question or examine the rationality of their beliefs. They simply believe what they are taught down through generations. They consider themselves to be poor miserable souls prostrate before the glory of God. If they interpret religious beliefs for themselves then they are heretics. My arrogance led me to question the sacred beliefs taught to me as a child and to reject the doctrine that condemns non-believers. My humble erstwhile churchmates continue to believe that I'll burn in hell. You also are arrogant to form your own religion. Who else was arrogant? Aristotle, Plato, Copernicus, Kepler, Galileo, Newton, Einstein, Bohr, Heisenberg, Dirac, Scroedinger....|
|I believe their intolerance and inflexibility are what's||OldEdScott|
Aug 13, 2003 7:27 AM
|perceived as arrogant. "We're right, you're wrong, you're going to hell" is pretty close to arrogant. It's arrogant certainty, to those who don't believe.
You're right about being quivering and humble before the Mighty God, though.
|Reading Under the Banner of Heaven right now||ColnagoFE|
Aug 13, 2003 7:44 AM
|Great read by the way. I am learning all kinds of cool stuff about the Mormon religion and the offshoots of Mormon fundementalism. Most of it not all that flattering. I can see why the bigwigs in Salt Lake don't like this book. What I don't get is how modern day LDS can still believe that Joseph Smith somehow discovered these magical golden books and then "magically" divined what they said (they were written in some ancient language). No matter that there are many historical and biological innacuracies found in it. Then to top it off he released what are basically ammendments (D&C) to this book that suited his lifestyle at the time (namely polygamy). Guess faith is not rational.|
|Terrific book. nm||OldEdScott|
Aug 13, 2003 8:48 AM
|didn't the pope finally pardon galileo a few years ago? (nm)||ColnagoFE|
Aug 13, 2003 8:54 AM
|My grandmother had a saying . . .||Turtleherder|
Aug 13, 2003 8:10 AM
|"The closer to church, the farther from God." Pretty much sums up what I found sitting in the pews. "Good Christians" trying to be absolved of all the rotten things they did to others during the rest of the week.|
|'Man' also created the bicycle; can't be all bad. nm.||Sao|
Aug 13, 2003 9:45 AM
|My favorite bumper sticker:||Steve98501|
Aug 13, 2003 3:51 PM
|Beer is proof that God loves us!
I agree with answering to God, not the self-proclaimed servants of whichever God.
|in heaven there is no beer...that's why we drink it here (nm)||ColnagoFE|
Aug 14, 2003 7:45 AM