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HBC's..a thing of the past or still good for future?(10 posts)

HBC's..a thing of the past or still good for future?ClydeTri
Jul 29, 2003 9:55 AM
I live in a city with two state universities. University of Alabama at Huntsville and Alabama A&M University. Both public state funded colleges. There is a large overlap in the degrees provided with some diversity between the two. UAH probably roughly reflects the racial population of the city at large while A&M is way out of whack in regards to racial makeup, especially if you remove the part time white students who go in the evening from the equation.

My question, is it time to start phasing out "Historically Black Colleges"? For those of you up north, they are common down here in the south and they once served a very important role, but when do we say that day is over? Why should the taxpayers of Alabama pay taxes to provide duplicate services in one city when it could be done cheaper if there were consolidation? ALso, how can one justify having enrollment standards different at two universities in the same state in the same city? And I mean significantly different.

But, to come out as a white person saying that HBC's should be phased out, you are branded a racist. NOt saying they should be closed, but where there are duplicated schools, such as here, the best of both should be kept and one campus closed. And where there is not duplication, for example Alabama State in Montgomery, keep it open and funded. However, for a school to advertise, as they do, as a "Historically Black College" should this be permissable? Would a school that is predominately white and publically funded by allowed to advertise as "Historically White College"? I think not.....

just on a soapbox today...
Education is a good thing, no?TJeanloz
Jul 29, 2003 10:18 AM
I live in Boston. We have at least 5 public colleges and universities. There is a large overlap of degrees and programs among each of them, but they each serve different constituencies. I have to say that I think your assessment misses the point of public education entirely.

Different universities serve different groups, each with the outcome of providing a good education. Nobody confuses a degree from Bunker Hill Community College with one from Harvard College, but both provide degrees that are highly valued in certain segments of the economy.
yes, but...ClydeTri
Jul 29, 2003 10:28 AM
We have massive budget problems here in Alabama. All publically funded schools are cutting staff/budgets/etc. Studies done here have shown that large amounts of money, TAX MONEY, could be saved by closing one university and consolidating. For example, the land that UAH sits on, the "white" school, is in a very desirable section of town and is worth a fortune. It could be sold off and easily pay for any new buildings on the A&M campus which has a surplus of land in a much more suburban area, on the edge of rural. Bottom line, money is being wasted here in this city. I do admit all situations are unique, as I said, in MOntgomery Alabama State is the primary school and should not be touched, but where there is duplication of state schools and limited $$$, changes need to be made IMHO.
This has nothing to do with them being "Historically Black"TJeanloz
Jul 29, 2003 10:35 AM
Your premise is that you have duplicate universities providing the same service (though you admit that their admissions policies differ greatly, so I would argue that they are not providing the same service), in the same place, and they should be consolidated into one. It doesn't matter that they are "Historically Black" - or at least, it shouldn't. But a major restructuring, as you propose, would likely cost more than you might expect. In Massachusetts, we face a similar scenario - albeit without the race card - where the Governer wants to consolidate the administrations of a number of schools into a single department. And there are a surprisingly large number of downsides to something that seems very obvious. One, which in the "theory" world that I usually live in doesn't matter, is that Universities employ a lot of people, and your proposed consolidation could well have a devastating effect on your local economy (as would be the case at UMass Amherst).
but it does..ClydeTri
Jul 29, 2003 10:48 AM
because way back a separate , can you say segregated, system of schools was set up, from elementary to college. They have long since consolidated the elementary to high schools but have not touched the unversities. I will take one exception to that I know of. Back in the mid 70s a judge in Nashville TN issued an order shutting down the Univ of Tn at Nashville. He basically said it was continued segregration for the state to fund a "white" university and a "black" unversity in the same city. Thus, UT-N was no more and funding was shifted to Tenn State Univ.
HBC's down here are aOldEdScott
Jul 29, 2003 10:54 AM
huge political manifestation, more than anything. No way you can get rid of them because (a) we have a large population of black voters, and (b) black voters generally want to keep the HBCs. HBCs are like the third rail of Southern politics -- or would be, if any politician had the balls to take up the issue, which none do.

Kentucky State University is and has long been a nightmare institution, poorly run, corrupt top to bottom (last few presidents ridden out of town on a rail for hellish, ah, financial practices), and Kentucky would be well served to put KSU's funding to better use elsewhere, but it will never happen.
HBC's down here are aClydeTri
Jul 29, 2003 10:58 AM
same here....Alabama A&M is one nightmare after another, the previous two presidents resigned/fired after sexual harrassment cases were brought against them resulting in massive financial settlements...yes, no politicians have the balls, but they should...
take it old ed you are not a Golden Thoroughbred?
Naw, but back in the 70s when Travis 'The Machine' GrantOldEdScott
Jul 29, 2003 11:03 AM
played for them, I went to their basketball games. Those teams were something special. Whew. Would have probably won the NCAA tourney if they'd been NCAA instead of NAIA.
Laker draft you remember Gerald Cunnigham???ClydeTri
Jul 29, 2003 11:05 AM
out of Howard HS in home alma mater recriuted the nephew of their head coach at that then he was coaching HS in Marion AL..
I do! Some great players in those schools.OldEdScott
Jul 29, 2003 11:27 AM
I've kind of lost track since KSU fell on hard times, basketball and otherwise, but I used to love it.