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The reason Clinton is defending posts)

The reason Clinton is defending
Jul 24, 2003 4:32 AM
He does NOT want a democrat to win in 2004. All of eggs are in the basket of Bush being relected and Hillary running for the White House in 2008. If a democrat is elected in 2004 that pushes her attempt at the White House until 2012, which is an enternity in politics.....
Maybe I don't understand politics well enough but...94Nole
Jul 24, 2003 5:00 AM
what does a Democrat in the White House have to do with Hitlery? Is it that they would leave well enough alone?
Maybe I don't understand politics well enough but...ClydeTri
Jul 24, 2003 5:13 AM
If a Democrat wins the White House in 2004, they would, unless a major screwup happens be the candidate again in 2008. Then in 2012 if the past 8 years had been successful, most likely the VP would be the person with the best shot at the PResidency, not forgetting that Al Gore didnt win after Slick Willie. Also, there is no guarentee that Hillary will be relected in NY, especially if she has to run against Rudy Guliana (sp?). The window of opportunity for Hillary running for the White House is 2008 and that is what they are shooting for. A Bush defeat in 2004 upsets their strategy.
Hey Doug: Remeber when you got all jacked upOldEdScott
Jul 24, 2003 5:14 AM
and denounced me as un-American despite 'whatever past service' I may have given my country when I made a teeny-tiny rhetorical joke involving 'the Thousand Year Reich' of the (generic) Republicans? All the other reactionaries of the board piled on too, as I recall. Apparently, even though Red Baiting is fine here, humor that even HINTS at N!zism is WAY out of bounds. We seem to be a little sensitive on the subject here.

Now, here we are, our old friend 'Nole referring to a United STates Senator and former First Lady of the United States EVEN MORE DIRECTLY as 'Hitlery.'


Is 'Nole un-American and way out of line to inject N!zi references into the political discussion here? Or is it OK, because you (self-admittedly) despise Hillary, and probably agree with 'Nole? Is there a double standard at work here? N!zi slurs against Dems OK, N!zi slurs against Repubs get you slammed as a traitor?

Don't particularly care, just wanted it stated for the record if there is.
Hey Old Edd...ClydeTri
Jul 24, 2003 5:27 AM
Notice I never used any derogatory terms, well, except for Slick Willie! :~) Even you as a liberal must admit, Bill is quite slick...
Bill is AMAZINGLY slick! Old Ed said admiringly. nmOldEdScott
Jul 24, 2003 5:32 AM
Hey Doug: Remeber when you got all jacked upAlpedhuez55
Jul 24, 2003 5:59 AM
I got jacked up when you made the thousand year reich comment as well. I think using Nazi rhetoric or antisemitism is ignorant whether you are on the left or the right. There are better ways to make your point and use of such rhetoric detracts from it.

Mike Y.
This is directed at 'Nole too? Just want to be clear. nmOldEdScott
Jul 24, 2003 6:08 AM
I said left or right, so it would apply to Nole too!!! nmAlpedhuez55
Jul 24, 2003 6:18 AM
I am not going to get into it more than ...Live Steam
Jul 24, 2003 6:30 AM
saying that Ed did not in any way use anti-Semitic remarks. And, referring to Hitler, Nazi, Reich and any other related terms in no way diminishes that atrocity. You are way over sensitive on the subject. There have been and unfortunately may continue to be atrocities on an equally horrendous scale. Millions of Italians were extinguished by Hitler too. Millions of Chinese have been murdered by that communist regime, and millions of people of many different faiths have been murdered throughout the ages, in the name of some vile belief. Unfortunately the Jews are not the only people with that unfortunate distinction.
Marriage has already mellowed you, Steam! nmOldEdScott
Jul 24, 2003 6:37 AM
Speaking as the dubious subject matter expert of sortssn69
Jul 24, 2003 7:35 AM
I don't necessarily consider the mere reference to Adolph's Tuesday Afternoon Tea and Bacci Ball Society as being anti-semetic in nature. Perhaps that makes me an Uncle Scheke to Ed's Blue Grass Heathen Southern Rebel Traitor War of Northern Aggression Tai-stick Smoking Neo-hippie A@@, but I thinks there's still a fair distinction to be made between using the Nazi's as a reference rather than using them as a means to hurt those that they slaughtered so inhumanely (Jews, Gypsies, Catholics, Gays, Political Dissenters, etc...or for that mattter the 20 mill that JoJo killed, the 3 mill that Pol slicked, the estimated 300 mill that Mao morted, etc).

Reference in an of itself doesn't satisfy the criteria for enthnocentricity/malicious intent (applied to the aggragate...there will always be individuals offended by just about anything). Contextual use of the reference is what meets the definition, such as when my bestestest RBR buddy occassionaly rears his misanthropic head and makes comments that are undeniably rude.

Likewise, it can almost be argued that the term Nazi has effectively become a colloquialism in the American English lexicon, whether one refers to a political movement one doesn't agree with (Ed=GW, me=Pat Schroeder), Oprah, Clear Channel, Cannondale, etc.... Again, it's all in the use.

For example, to say that Ed is a goose stepping, jack boot wearing zealot of Frau Hillary would be wrong.

...On a lot of levels.

HA HA HA HA HA! Fact is, my circumcised Yiddish brother,OldEdScott
Jul 24, 2003 7:45 AM
the post in question NEVER said N!zi. In fact, I have never spelled out the word N!zi on this board, since discovering it rubs our noisy right wing contingent the wrong way, and I already feel like some poor bewildered Midwestern workadaddy running down the streets of Pamplona just ahead of the bulls here ...

ALL MY POST SAID WAS something about 'the hoped for Thousand Year Reich of Republican rule.' It was as modest as that!

I don't believe the bitter attacks on that tiny little statement ever mentioned anti-Semitism, to be honest. That was today's gloss, and misses the point entirely.

Oh, go goose step around the hog pen!sn69
Jul 24, 2003 7:48 AM
By the way, on a completely different subject, I recently saw "Best In Show." Somehow Christopher Guest's character reminded me of you.

Word to yo imam,
On my list of Top 10 movies of all time! GREAT movie!OldEdScott
Jul 24, 2003 7:51 AM
I certainly identified with that character too, by the way.
Still waiting to rent the folk music spoof.sn69
Jul 24, 2003 7:57 AM
Likewise, I favor Guest's stunning performance in "Princess Bride," although Mandy Patankin's (fellow member of the tribe, mind you...although he didn't break his mother's heart by becoming a military nerd) heart rending role as Indigo still brings a lump to my throat.

Funny thing, though, the Kuwaiti and Bahraini air controllers in the P'Gulf don't seem to get or appreciate my comebacks to their queries: "Hello, my name is Indigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die!"....
You'll come to grief byOldEdScott
Jul 24, 2003 8:02 AM
talking over people's heads that way, young Scott.

Mandy Patankin is a damn capital G GENIUS.
CAG used to tell me the same thing. nmsn69
Jul 24, 2003 8:09 AM
seems you have sufficiently chastized; thanks nmDougSloan
Jul 24, 2003 6:29 AM
I apologize to any and all in my "stepping over the line"...94Nole
Jul 24, 2003 6:59 AM
in the poor use of words or in this case, names/labels of the HHRC.

No prob, dude.OldEdScott
Jul 24, 2003 7:11 AM
I really, truly don't care, and don't think it's offensive. I, like many 'real' liberals, like free and robust debate with colorful use of language, and can't imagine a political philosophy that would clamp down on political word games, metaphors, crazy slanders, exaggerations, screwing with names... that's why I shun left-wing PC language commissars, and fear the authoritarian streak of the Right that says: "You may not say THIS, or I'll charge you with treason."

American politics has, traditionally, been freewheeling and FUN. That's why I immediately adopt my 'enemy's' phraseology, to neutralize it in a hunorous way. I say 'Dumocrats' here all the time, and I'll be tickled to death to say 'Hitlery.'

I wasn't really complaining about you, obviously. I just wanted to point up a certain ... ah ... one-sidedness in the rules of engagement on this board, and you're not involved in that.

you bleeding pantywasteDougSloan
Jul 24, 2003 7:15 AM
If I recall, it was a left-leaner who originally complained about the Nazi references, even despite their being directed at right-wingers. Same rules apply to all.

Thanks for your continued vigilance and support! ;-)

Thanks for finallyOldEdScott
Jul 24, 2003 7:24 AM
giving me the label I've always dream of!

(Blood is RED, you know. Hmmmmmmmmmmm ... Steam?)
That's an anasininealysisStarliner
Jul 24, 2003 7:56 AM
News bulletin: Bill Clinton, a two-term President and now retired politician, has earned the right to speak from the heart, the cuff, and from his head about current affairs and can do it without worrying about popularity polls or paranoid and idiotic spins from the usual suspects who apparently and yawningly will be hounding him to his grave.

Clinton was not defending Bush. He was speaking about issues that are far above the petty politics that somebody with half the leadership qualities of Clinton would have spoken about.